TD in DC

This past weekend at Watkins Glen, I put a set of sticker Hoosiers on my car for qualifying on Friday and then left them on for the fun race, warm up the next day, sprint one, and then sprint two, during which they felt fine until towards the end of the second sprint when they got loose, which I assumed meant I had just pushed them too hard.

The following day, I used the same set for enduro warm up, during which I did not push hard at all. During the enduro, though, I felt like they were already off. The difference felt dramatic. Could it have been that they are already gone? I mean, they were still predictable and they are certainly not cording or anything like that, but they just didn't feel that fast anymore. How long can I expect to be able to use sticker Hoosiers under racing conditions before they fall below prime performance?

Thanks,

TD

Veloce Raptor

IMO, 2-4 heat cycles is all they are worth.

BrianKeithSmith

Evidently I must drive like a pansie...

But my experience has been that I suck on new Hoosiers until they get a few cycles in them, then I start running "good pace" lap times.

I scuffed a new set at VIR the other weekend, and they were horrible during the scuff-in session. I then went out on my Hoosiers that had at least 16 sessions on them, and I was at my normal pace. On about cycle 20 I ran my best lap ever...

Previously I ran my best lap ever on cycle #34 on a set of R5's that had been soaked with Formula V.

But evidently new tires worked well for forklift

Just my experience TD... nothing more, nothing less. I know A930Rocket had about 20 sessions on his Hoosiers and he said he felt like he had very little grip...


Brian

George A

TD, did you make sure the pressures were consistent for all sessions? I ran a set of R6's on Memorial Day weekend and got my fastest lap on their 7th session (I only did 8).

G.

TD in DC

Pressures all looked good.

I was shocked myself, but I felt the tires starting to go off at the end of the second sprint (heat cycle 4). They felt really squirmy exiting the busstop, where I usually do not have a problem. Each lap towards the end I said to myself "wow, that feels squirmy there." On about the second to last lap, I had the biggest tankslapper I have ever had in my life. Coming out of the busstop, the rear popped out to the left, I caught it, then it popped out violently to the right and pointed me straight towards the tire walls, I caught it, then it swung back around to the left, at which point I was pointed in the right direction so I nailed the gas and took off like nothing ever happened.

The next day during the enduro, I was racing with a real nice guy (name's Henry I think) driving in SP1 class. During the sprints, he really couldn't keep up with me in the corners (SP1s must run RA1s), but he could pull me a little on the straights. During the enduro, I could not even leave him in the corners, and it was noticeable . . . my tires just felt slippery.

Brian,

To me, new Hoosiers feel like crap for about the first two laps during which time they feel like they are flatspotted tires. Then, after about the third lap, they are as fast as they will ever be. I don't have that much experience, but that is my impression. After the first session, it is a slow downhill progression until they just become really slow.

richard glickel.

Todd,

This may have been more a function of tire pressures than wear. For example, I had two new sets of R6's at SP club race last October. Used the same tires for practice, qual and sprint race at SP mid-November. Ran them again for 2-days at VIR in early December Chin D.E.

Ran the same tires at mid-Ohio NASA '44Cup races (practice on friday, races sat & sun), and had one set on the car at Pocono for the sprint where my engine blew up. I discarded that set for safety's sake realizing that the heat from the oil fire was intense - brief, but intense.

I ran the other set (from 10/06) all day at Metro Region's D.E. on thursday, they felt fine. I still have that set and will run them again - possibly this weekend in practice for the N.E. Region's '44Cup races at BeaveRun, or I may save them for practice day at Hyperfest.

I try to always have two sets as there isn't always tire support at every event, (now I also have a new set of Hoosier rains, which, BTW, is why it did not rain during any of our races at WGI last weekend), and wear them evenly, so there's no loss of performance switching from one set to the other.

I would like to try the new Goodrich R1's later this year. The previous Goodrich R1 was a terrific tire.

Depending upon track and ambient temps, I will start the Hoosiers at between 27 to 31 psi, with a "hot" goal of 36 or 37-38 (tops) psi.

For whatever it's worth, my tires felt a little greasy by the end of the 2nd sprint race . . . it's entirely possible (if not most likely) that there was some slippery substance on the track surface by then. I don't think it was the R6's.

Larry Herman

I have found that my R6s are very consistent, and last an extraordinary number of heat cycles, probably on the order of 18~20. I warmed upon tires that had 18 heat cycles and one winter, and actually ran 3/10s slower on the 3 heat cycled set that I qualified on.

With that in mind, my car has very even temps across the tread and that may be a factor. I have had tires go off quickly in other cars because I was overheating and cooking the inside edges of the tires. Once I corrected the camber/toe-in problems, I got decent tire life and performance.

The last thing that I have found with the R6s is that they definitely have a tight pressure range, +/- 2 lbs max, and once you get outside that range, especially to the high side, the performance drops off noticeably.

TD in DC

Larry,

That is an interesting point. I guess I should pull out the probe pyrometer.

Todd

richard glickel.

Todd,

That was Henry Hoeh, past Zone 1 rep, past president of Metro Region PCA, a former Zone 1 autoX champ, D.E. instructor and "rookie" PCA racer. AND, a super nice guy.

BTW, Henry prepared the car himself.

Bull

TD, I'm sure you are talking about R6s, which i find drop off a little after 6-8 heat cycles, but rememain consistent after that for quite a while. My experience with R6s is that they do what you describe when they get the least bit above 37-38 psi. I target 35-36psi.

VR, are you talking about R6s, or older Hoosiers? Most people I run with find that the new R6s last much longer than the older Hosiers.

BrianKeithSmith

Hmmm... I'm still shooting for 40hot, but I might drop it down to a hot target of 37 and see what I get....

Brian

TD in DC

Henry was very nice, and I enjoyed meeting him. I had a lot of fun racing with him.

Funny thing is that he remarked to me later that I was turning in late for 10 an 11. I explained that there was a very good reason for that . . .

Slantnose!

I've found you need to scrub them in first and then let them sit longer than overnight, closer to 24 hours.
Even adding an extra 4 psi or so and doing some figures eights in front of the house will do fine.
They do fall off after a couple of heat cycles.

richard glickel.

What he said.

TD in DC

Bob that could be right. I just felt like the tires were noticeably looser during the enduro.

My target hot pressures were 37. I started at 29 to get there.