TD in DC

Yes, of course, that is true and the way it should be.

But, unexpected situations can catch everyone, amateur or pro, and the difference between the men and the boys (or the women and the girls) is who has put themselves in a better position to deal with the unexpected, which, I guess, is a way of expecting it.

See this video example: http://download-v5.streamload.com/55...201%20Save.mov

with thread explanation here: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/343907-a-save-in-the-rain.html

You can use any variety of techniques when all is going well. When things start to go bad, you will be in a much better position if you have selected a technique that makes it easier for you to adapt quickly.

hammerwerfer

You are quite correct. The drifters are moving at a leisurely rate because they have set up the drift initially and are probably steering on the throttle at a speed that is far below that of a race or rally car.

I am talking about catching that sudden oversteer situation encountered by hitting some oil, or getting a love tap from another car. The sort of thing that a rally driver encounters on a regular basis, but a circuit driver only occasionally.

Fast should seem slow and smooth, but when things are a bit pear shaped, a quick correction is called for. We can punch, or push quicker than we can pull. If one practices steering by pushing all the time, then when the time comes for a quick correction, it will be a natural reaction.

Bob Rouleau

The shuffle debate will go on forever. One of the reasons some regions advocate shuffle at DE is the air bag. Shuffle keeps your hands out of the way.

As to using caster, yeah, I do. Coming out of a left hander (for example) I will let the wheel slide through my left hand while holding fast with the right one. The right hand has more control under this circumstance since it is on the "pulling" side and we have better fine motor control pulling than pushing.

Regards,

hammerwerfer

I would have to disagree with that. If you take a shot at arms lenght and pull it to you, how fast will it be going when it gets to your body. On the other hand start with it against the body and push or punch it away. It will accelerate much quicker in that direction as the triceps and pectorals contract.

The arm can extend quicker than it can bend.

TD in DC

Yeah, maybe. I think we are getting off point here because I think it is largely irrelevant for driving. The truth is that you are either moving the arm up or down, so the analogy wasn't really right in the first place.

Out of all honestly, I don't think in the driving context it makes much of a difference whether you are "pushing" the wheel up rapidly or "pulling" the wheel down rapidly. I think we are approaching angels dancing on the head of a pin territory, but what do I know. I have already changed my mind about 10 times on each topic since starting this sport two years ago.

Bob Rouleau

hammer - we may be talking about two different things. It has ben proven that we have more control pulling than pushing. It's how our muscles work. Note "control" is the point.

Todd - I think you will find that you are controlling the movement of your steering wheel with the hand that "pulls" down more than with the one "pushing" up.

Here is a simple test. Try and draw a straight line starting from the bottom up as opposed to top down

TD in DC

Bob,

We are saying the same thing. My point is that I am more concerned about "unexpected" movements than expected ones, so I personally prefer to put myself in a position that I can pull the steering wheel down when I need to put in countersteer to deal with oversteer.

TD

Larry Herman

I have a rare shot of Todd's hand positions here =>



Actually, I feel that I do exactly what you are describing Todd. Maybe I need to re-think things?

Geo

However... what you do can change the leverage on the wheel and that is vitally important.

Geo

Bingo!

TD in DC

Ouch

You, among others, taught me so it shouldn't be all that surprising . . .

}{arlequin

i only shuffle steer on special occasions
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...78666381&hl=en

smlporsche

Nice save ^^^

ronbo56

}{ -- Nice save!

TD and Hammer -- I was taught to pull the wheel in karting bc it changes the geometry of the kart. (Could be. I was never that fast in karts.) In cars I have been taught to keep my hands in place for the first 90 degrees of steering lock but not to cross over. On the street I think I do exactly what Larry described (I also have a big SUV).

Great discussion!

Larry Herman

Good thing that you had a straight to get those sphincter muscles unclenched!