Where are all the Alonso detractors
09-21-2007 | 05:12 PM
#571
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,794
Likes: 11
From: North Carolina
Ray,
This is what Montoya said,
"Teams are allowed to bend the rules too much. That's just my personal opinion, but I always felt like people bent the rules and that some teams were allowed to bend the rules more than others. But this? This is crossing the line."
Does that look like , he is comparing the two. Mclaren crossed the line of acceptable cheating, is what i gathered from this,
Montoya then went on to talk about the penalties ...
I was surprised that since they were taking points, they should have taken the driver points, as well. That is crazy, you know, because they took the constructor points but the drivers gained from the knowledge. So if you are going to do it, do it properly."
He is spot on, on both accounts...............................
This is what Montoya said,
"Teams are allowed to bend the rules too much. That's just my personal opinion, but I always felt like people bent the rules and that some teams were allowed to bend the rules more than others. But this? This is crossing the line."
Does that look like , he is comparing the two. Mclaren crossed the line of acceptable cheating, is what i gathered from this,
Montoya then went on to talk about the penalties ...
I was surprised that since they were taking points, they should have taken the driver points, as well. That is crazy, you know, because they took the constructor points but the drivers gained from the knowledge. So if you are going to do it, do it properly."
He is spot on, on both accounts...............................
Read it again.
He said:
"Juan Pablo Montoya says he is not surprised that Formula One has become embroiled in a major spy scandal, because he thinks everyone has been pushing the rules to the limits in recent years.
The now NASCAR driver, who drove for McLaren in 2005 and 2006, thinks there is nothing out of the ordinary in what McLaren did."
As I said, I disagree. I think the corporate corporate espionage that happened at McLaren takes it to a new level. They clearly crossed the line. I do not think that it is "ordinary". Do you think it is ordinary?
As always, I bet you will want the last word. Have at it.
09-21-2007 | 05:14 PM
#572
Thread Starter
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,448
Likes: 0
From: RPM Central
You just like to argue don't you Wayne??
Read it again.
He said:
"Juan Pablo Montoya says he is not surprised that Formula One has become embroiled in a major spy scandal, because he thinks everyone has been pushing the rules to the limits in recent years.
The now NASCAR driver, who drove for McLaren in 2005 and 2006, thinks there is nothing out of the ordinary in what McLaren did."
As I said, I disagree. I think the corporate corporate espionage that happened at McLaren takes it to a new level. They clearly crossed the line. I do not think that it is "ordinary". Do you think it is ordinary?
As always, I bet you will want the last word. Have at it.
Read it again.
He said:
"Juan Pablo Montoya says he is not surprised that Formula One has become embroiled in a major spy scandal, because he thinks everyone has been pushing the rules to the limits in recent years.
The now NASCAR driver, who drove for McLaren in 2005 and 2006, thinks there is nothing out of the ordinary in what McLaren did."
As I said, I disagree. I think the corporate corporate espionage that happened at McLaren takes it to a new level. They clearly crossed the line. I do not think that it is "ordinary". Do you think it is ordinary?
As always, I bet you will want the last word. Have at it.
Ray,
you seem to have a comprehension problem. I will leave it at that .....
He was talking about the exchange of info between drivers and the trying of other team setups , listening in on radio conversations, photos of wings, cars etc, it was nothing out of the ordinary but based on the fact that teams where already pushing this , he was not suprised by the spy scandal ., He then went on to say , They ( mclaren had crossed the line ) meaning the theft of the Ferrari info was over the limit. ....
09-21-2007 | 07:29 PM
#573
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,794
Likes: 11
From: North Carolina
I have a comprehension problem?? That's rich coming from you.
I'll try one last time (real slow). I'll even shorten the quote for you.
"The now NASCAR driver, who drove for McLaren in 2005 and 2006, thinks there is nothing out of the ordinary in what McLaren did." "It's just how Formula One is,"
I find nothing about this current activity to be "ordinary". I don't see how it is "just how Formula One is". I don't see any other teams embroiled in this type of activity. I have not seen this type of activity reported in recent years.
It is criminal, plain and simple.
He went on to say "Someone is always cheating. All the teams have photographers who take pictures of everything on the car. Everybody does it.
That tells me he doesn't even know the difference. Taking pictures on a car on the track or in the pits is fair game. Not cheating. Trading in stolen document is cheating.
Go ahead....spin away....
I can hardly wait for the spin you'll put on this.
I'll try one last time (real slow). I'll even shorten the quote for you.
"The now NASCAR driver, who drove for McLaren in 2005 and 2006, thinks there is nothing out of the ordinary in what McLaren did." "It's just how Formula One is,"
I find nothing about this current activity to be "ordinary". I don't see how it is "just how Formula One is". I don't see any other teams embroiled in this type of activity. I have not seen this type of activity reported in recent years.
It is criminal, plain and simple.
He went on to say "Someone is always cheating. All the teams have photographers who take pictures of everything on the car. Everybody does it.
That tells me he doesn't even know the difference. Taking pictures on a car on the track or in the pits is fair game. Not cheating. Trading in stolen document is cheating.
Go ahead....spin away....
I can hardly wait for the spin you'll put on this.
Last edited by Ray S; 09-21-2007 at 07:59 PM. Reason: added info
09-21-2007 | 08:59 PM
#574
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,279
Likes: 3,595
Anything that is in public view i.e. wings, chassis parts, chimney exhausts, radiator inlets, size of the brake ducts, RAM airbox openings, driver's helmet shapes and manufacterer, etc. is open game to be photographed, digitized and reproduced to scale.
Radio communications that are scrambled over the air are out of line as it is not meant for others consumption and the other party is actively trying to procure something by means that are not open to the public or other teams.
Dossier's, well...
Radio communications that are scrambled over the air are out of line as it is not meant for others consumption and the other party is actively trying to procure something by means that are not open to the public or other teams.
Dossier's, well...
09-22-2007 | 12:17 AM
#575
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 950
Likes: 0
From: Encinitas, CA "Surf Capital of the World"
This is a poignant advertising campaign by Ferrari and it's working!! When I get home, I can't wait to read Wayne's World. Still believe the mech will have FA DFNing in the next few races. That's terrible!!!
09-22-2007 | 09:26 PM
#576
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,794
Likes: 11
From: North Carolina
09-24-2007 | 10:08 AM
#577
Thread Starter
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,448
Likes: 0
From: RPM Central
HOW ALONSO GOT HIS GAME BACK
www.itv.com
Fernando Alonso is back to his best on the track having comprehensively out-raced his McLaren team-mate Lewis Hamilton at Monza and Spa.
With a third straight title now within Alonso's grasp, Mark Hughes says the Spaniard will be difficult to beat.
Lewis Hamilton’s once handsome championship lead is now a tenuous two points, with Spa the third successive race he has finished behind team-mate Fernando Alonso.
The Italian and Belgian Grands Prix saw the world champion in devastating form, and Hamilton struggling to keep up.
With the title fight entering its final decisive phase, Alonso’s timing could not have been more psychologically damaging to his rival.
What’s behind the recent resurgence in Alonso’s form?
It’s probably significant that at each of the last two races he has stopped trying to beat Hamilton by doing something different.
For much of the earlier part of the season, when Hamilton seemingly had a couple of tenths advantage over him, Alonso was trying to find a solution by making different tyre and brake choices – searching for a technical edge that might overcome the inherent speed advantage Lewis seemed to have in the driving department.
At Monza and Spa Alonso gave up on that search, simply got his head down and appeared to resolve to take on Hamilton on equal terms and beat him by doing a better job at the wheel.
That of course is far easier said than done and Alonso – operating almost as an island within McLaren following his breakdown in relations with boss Ron Dennis – has turned inward, looked inside himself for more performance, and found it.
At its core, performing at the top level in any sporting endeavour is a solitary experience.
A driver has his team around him, but still he is alone in the car and in his thoughts and motivations. These are rooted deep within his psyche.
We’ve seen this with Alonso before: When he feels outward circumstances are turning against him at the crucial moment, he is able to somehow use negative emotions around him to trigger a power within him.
In the run-in to last year’s title showdown he became deeply upset when Renault didn’t use team-mate Giancarlo Fisichella to protect him in his fight with Michael Schumacher at the Chinese Grand Prix.
A week later in Japan he told the world how he often felt alone in the team, how certain he was that such a situation could not have arisen at Ferrari where Schumacher was always protected if necessary.
The Renault team, who felt they were doing everything in their power to help Alonso win the title, were mystified by the outburst.
There would have been a distinctly uneasy atmosphere in their garages afterwards – yet Alonso went out and produced a devastating winning drive that virtually guaranteed him the title.
The previous year, once it became clear that the McLaren was a faster car than his Renault, we saw him baton down the hatches to protect his early points lead. He became a solitary figure during that time too, yet routinely produced brilliant drives.
Alonso is a strange mix – very insular, very private, only opening out to his small group of friends, yet naturally suspicious, always looking for who or what is about to trip him up.
And when he finds it – or believes he has found it – he unleashes the intense passion that fuels his best performances.
Now, having adapted his driving style to the very different demands of a McLaren on Bridgestones after five years of driving a rear-heavy Renault on Michelins, and digging deep within his special psyche, he is in a place that is going to be very difficult to beat.
Fernando Alonso is back to his best on the track having comprehensively out-raced his McLaren team-mate Lewis Hamilton at Monza and Spa.
With a third straight title now within Alonso's grasp, Mark Hughes says the Spaniard will be difficult to beat.
Lewis Hamilton’s once handsome championship lead is now a tenuous two points, with Spa the third successive race he has finished behind team-mate Fernando Alonso.
The Italian and Belgian Grands Prix saw the world champion in devastating form, and Hamilton struggling to keep up.
With the title fight entering its final decisive phase, Alonso’s timing could not have been more psychologically damaging to his rival.
What’s behind the recent resurgence in Alonso’s form?
It’s probably significant that at each of the last two races he has stopped trying to beat Hamilton by doing something different.
For much of the earlier part of the season, when Hamilton seemingly had a couple of tenths advantage over him, Alonso was trying to find a solution by making different tyre and brake choices – searching for a technical edge that might overcome the inherent speed advantage Lewis seemed to have in the driving department.
At Monza and Spa Alonso gave up on that search, simply got his head down and appeared to resolve to take on Hamilton on equal terms and beat him by doing a better job at the wheel.
That of course is far easier said than done and Alonso – operating almost as an island within McLaren following his breakdown in relations with boss Ron Dennis – has turned inward, looked inside himself for more performance, and found it.
At its core, performing at the top level in any sporting endeavour is a solitary experience.
A driver has his team around him, but still he is alone in the car and in his thoughts and motivations. These are rooted deep within his psyche.
We’ve seen this with Alonso before: When he feels outward circumstances are turning against him at the crucial moment, he is able to somehow use negative emotions around him to trigger a power within him.
In the run-in to last year’s title showdown he became deeply upset when Renault didn’t use team-mate Giancarlo Fisichella to protect him in his fight with Michael Schumacher at the Chinese Grand Prix.
A week later in Japan he told the world how he often felt alone in the team, how certain he was that such a situation could not have arisen at Ferrari where Schumacher was always protected if necessary.
The Renault team, who felt they were doing everything in their power to help Alonso win the title, were mystified by the outburst.
There would have been a distinctly uneasy atmosphere in their garages afterwards – yet Alonso went out and produced a devastating winning drive that virtually guaranteed him the title.
The previous year, once it became clear that the McLaren was a faster car than his Renault, we saw him baton down the hatches to protect his early points lead. He became a solitary figure during that time too, yet routinely produced brilliant drives.
Alonso is a strange mix – very insular, very private, only opening out to his small group of friends, yet naturally suspicious, always looking for who or what is about to trip him up.
And when he finds it – or believes he has found it – he unleashes the intense passion that fuels his best performances.
Now, having adapted his driving style to the very different demands of a McLaren on Bridgestones after five years of driving a rear-heavy Renault on Michelins, and digging deep within his special psyche, he is in a place that is going to be very difficult to beat.
09-26-2007 | 02:58 PM
#578
Racer
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
From: Piacenza, Italy - Montreal, Canada
another interesting review on Ed Gorman's blog
"So: FA was “perfect” in 5 races: Australia, Monaco, Silverstone, Nürburgring, Monza.
LH “perfect” in 3 races: Bahrain, Spain, Hungary. (By perfect I mean finishing ahead, and better fastest lap in race, and better fastest lap in the weekend)
FA finished ahead of LH 8 times. LH finished ahead of FA 6 times.
FA fastest lap in 8 races. LH fastest lap in 6 races.
FA fastest lap in 8 weekends. LH fastest lap in 6 weekends.
Data from www.formula1.com"
Not bad for someone who has to fight his entire team first, and the competition second.
http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/
"So: FA was “perfect” in 5 races: Australia, Monaco, Silverstone, Nürburgring, Monza.
LH “perfect” in 3 races: Bahrain, Spain, Hungary. (By perfect I mean finishing ahead, and better fastest lap in race, and better fastest lap in the weekend)
FA finished ahead of LH 8 times. LH finished ahead of FA 6 times.
FA fastest lap in 8 races. LH fastest lap in 6 races.
FA fastest lap in 8 weekends. LH fastest lap in 6 weekends.
Data from www.formula1.com"
Not bad for someone who has to fight his entire team first, and the competition second.
http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/
09-28-2007 | 08:17 AM
#579
Thread Starter
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,448
Likes: 0
From: RPM Central
Interview with McLaren’s Fernando Alonso
www.f1.com
After a tough couple of months, all eyes are on world champion Fernando Alonso in Japan this weekend. What will be his next move? Will he stay or will he go? The answers could impact the careers of several other drivers, as team bosses hold off finalising their 2008 line-ups.
Only Alonso himself has those answers, but the Spaniard seems largely unmoved, preferring instead to brush off the speculation and focus on his title hopes and those all-important remaining races…
Q: Despite the closing championship battle with Ferrari, everyone seems focused on your relationship with your team mate Lewis Hamilton - especially after Spa. Rumour has it you might not even be talking to one another…
Fernando Alonso: That’s superficial. Fact is that we don’t see each other very often outside the races, but when we meet - like yesterday morning - we were talking normally to each other.
Q: Do you have anything to add about the so-called ‘spy scandal’? About who said what at what time?
FA: I have nothing more to say about it. I am not that type of person who will speak out in the open about this. I will try to speak in the motorhome and otherwise try to do my job. There have been so many things said about this matter and about me that are totally wrong, but these things happen and I will not answer what the media say about me every day. I will not lose time on that. And regarding next year - I have a contract with this team so I don’t see any problems with that.
Q: So your relationship with the team is okay to progress forward into next season?
FA: Seems so. I have been working with the engineers, the mechanics with everybody since the beginning of the season until now with the same relationship. They are all very professional, very focused on doing the best we can - and we are achieving good results. I have won four races, I made some good podiums and I am fighting for the world championship, so everything is going quite well for me and I am happy.
Q: We constantly read in the media that ‘Fernando is not happy’, ‘Fernando is going back to Renault… or Ferrari… or Toyota’. What is the truth?
FA: For that, there is nothing true and it is the same answer as before - I cannot answer every week, every day, unfounded rumours. I am completely focusing on the last three races and that is the only truth.
Q: Have recent races been difficult because you and team principal Ron Dennis have not been talking?
FA: That is not true. We speak, small talk, but the media have made up that we are have not talked for the last three months. I will try to win this race, the rest is not very important.
Q: Have you found your previous championship battles easier?
FA: All of them are similar in a way. When you fight for a world championship everything is difficult and hard and there is no moment to relax in a championship fight. In 2005 it was probably more comfortable when I was 20 points ahead of Kimi (Raikkonen) and Mclaren was having mechanical problems. Last year and this year it is obviously very tight. Last year I arrived in Japan on equal points with Michael (Schumacher), this year we have three races to go and I am two points behind so for sure it is similar in a way to last year.
Q: Is it easier for you to chase or to lead?
FA: I prefer to be in front. If something happens you are on the safe side. If you are behind and something happens then you can lose your opportunity. But this championship is as it is and I hope that I can do better in the races to come and end up in front.
Q: Coming back to this race, it’s a fast track and the season has so far indicated that Lewis is doing better on the faster tracks. Do you think that you can break this pattern here in Fuji?
FA: I don’t know if this is a pattern. I have never thought of that. I hope that I can do it here but today’s times are not important for the set-up. The set-up is what matters, not necessarily the times, as Friday is a very important step for Sunday’s race. And it is impossible to predict now what’s going to happen on Sunday. Small details make the race better or worse for you.
Q: You said in Spa that knowing the team, the car and the tyres better is now helping you. When did you realise that you were over these problems?
FA: You keep learning constantly every weekend so for sure I am better now than in Spa, and in Spa I was better than in Monza. But for sure it was a bigger step than from Magny-Cours or from Indianapolis.
Q: How difficult is it to weigh up the risks of fighting with your team mate for the title - does it require a different approach?
FA: Yes.
After a tough couple of months, all eyes are on world champion Fernando Alonso in Japan this weekend. What will be his next move? Will he stay or will he go? The answers could impact the careers of several other drivers, as team bosses hold off finalising their 2008 line-ups.
Only Alonso himself has those answers, but the Spaniard seems largely unmoved, preferring instead to brush off the speculation and focus on his title hopes and those all-important remaining races…
Q: Despite the closing championship battle with Ferrari, everyone seems focused on your relationship with your team mate Lewis Hamilton - especially after Spa. Rumour has it you might not even be talking to one another…
Fernando Alonso: That’s superficial. Fact is that we don’t see each other very often outside the races, but when we meet - like yesterday morning - we were talking normally to each other.
Q: Do you have anything to add about the so-called ‘spy scandal’? About who said what at what time?
FA: I have nothing more to say about it. I am not that type of person who will speak out in the open about this. I will try to speak in the motorhome and otherwise try to do my job. There have been so many things said about this matter and about me that are totally wrong, but these things happen and I will not answer what the media say about me every day. I will not lose time on that. And regarding next year - I have a contract with this team so I don’t see any problems with that.
Q: So your relationship with the team is okay to progress forward into next season?
FA: Seems so. I have been working with the engineers, the mechanics with everybody since the beginning of the season until now with the same relationship. They are all very professional, very focused on doing the best we can - and we are achieving good results. I have won four races, I made some good podiums and I am fighting for the world championship, so everything is going quite well for me and I am happy.
Q: We constantly read in the media that ‘Fernando is not happy’, ‘Fernando is going back to Renault… or Ferrari… or Toyota’. What is the truth?
FA: For that, there is nothing true and it is the same answer as before - I cannot answer every week, every day, unfounded rumours. I am completely focusing on the last three races and that is the only truth.
Q: Have recent races been difficult because you and team principal Ron Dennis have not been talking?
FA: That is not true. We speak, small talk, but the media have made up that we are have not talked for the last three months. I will try to win this race, the rest is not very important.
Q: Have you found your previous championship battles easier?
FA: All of them are similar in a way. When you fight for a world championship everything is difficult and hard and there is no moment to relax in a championship fight. In 2005 it was probably more comfortable when I was 20 points ahead of Kimi (Raikkonen) and Mclaren was having mechanical problems. Last year and this year it is obviously very tight. Last year I arrived in Japan on equal points with Michael (Schumacher), this year we have three races to go and I am two points behind so for sure it is similar in a way to last year.
Q: Is it easier for you to chase or to lead?
FA: I prefer to be in front. If something happens you are on the safe side. If you are behind and something happens then you can lose your opportunity. But this championship is as it is and I hope that I can do better in the races to come and end up in front.
Q: Coming back to this race, it’s a fast track and the season has so far indicated that Lewis is doing better on the faster tracks. Do you think that you can break this pattern here in Fuji?
FA: I don’t know if this is a pattern. I have never thought of that. I hope that I can do it here but today’s times are not important for the set-up. The set-up is what matters, not necessarily the times, as Friday is a very important step for Sunday’s race. And it is impossible to predict now what’s going to happen on Sunday. Small details make the race better or worse for you.
Q: You said in Spa that knowing the team, the car and the tyres better is now helping you. When did you realise that you were over these problems?
FA: You keep learning constantly every weekend so for sure I am better now than in Spa, and in Spa I was better than in Monza. But for sure it was a bigger step than from Magny-Cours or from Indianapolis.
Q: How difficult is it to weigh up the risks of fighting with your team mate for the title - does it require a different approach?
FA: Yes.
09-28-2007 | 09:57 AM
#580
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,794
Likes: 11
From: North Carolina
"In 2005 it was probably more comfortable when I was 20 points ahead of Kimi (Raikkonen) and Mclaren was having mechanical problems."
Even Alonso remembers the reliability issues that Mac had previously.
Even Alonso remembers the reliability issues that Mac had previously.
10-01-2007 | 11:03 AM
#583
Administrator
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 2,248
From: Up Nort
Interesting:
As far as the most powerful man in the paddock of Fuji Speedway knows, Fernando Alonso could be set to take a year off in 2008.
Speaking with British reporters at the scene of the Japanese grand prix, F1's chief executive Bernie Ecclestone says he has been "told" that Alonso might be heading to Ferrari, but only after his McLaren contract runs out.
"It would be terrible but there is nothing you can do about it," the 76-year-old said of the prospect of a multiple world champion on the sidelines.
"It might suit Ron (Dennis). Ron might say, 'I'll pay you but you can't drive for anyone else', like they do with the designers."
For the moment, it's all paddock chatter.
"He has no idea, nor has Ron. He's got a contract and if Ron wants him to stick to it he'll have to," the diminutive Briton said.
Ecclestone also predicted that the Spaniard's championship run-in with teammate Lewis Hamilton might be destined for a Senna-Prost-esque collision over the last three races.
"I'd love to see that," he mischievously confessed, adding that he reckons Alonso declared that sort of war two weeks ago at Spa.
"I think he tried to take him off. It looked like it, didn't it? In the old days they were a bit naughty but now it's much safer.
"Like the $100m fine, it would bring a lot of publicity and it'd be very dramatic. That would be great.
"Imagine if it happened on the last lap of the last race. The guy who was leading at the time, points-wise, would be the winner. So it would be a controversial end."
For what it's worth, Alonso played down the possibility of such a clash. "It will not happen," he confidently said.
Speaking with British reporters at the scene of the Japanese grand prix, F1's chief executive Bernie Ecclestone says he has been "told" that Alonso might be heading to Ferrari, but only after his McLaren contract runs out.
"It would be terrible but there is nothing you can do about it," the 76-year-old said of the prospect of a multiple world champion on the sidelines.
"It might suit Ron (Dennis). Ron might say, 'I'll pay you but you can't drive for anyone else', like they do with the designers."
For the moment, it's all paddock chatter.
"He has no idea, nor has Ron. He's got a contract and if Ron wants him to stick to it he'll have to," the diminutive Briton said.
Ecclestone also predicted that the Spaniard's championship run-in with teammate Lewis Hamilton might be destined for a Senna-Prost-esque collision over the last three races.
"I'd love to see that," he mischievously confessed, adding that he reckons Alonso declared that sort of war two weeks ago at Spa.
"I think he tried to take him off. It looked like it, didn't it? In the old days they were a bit naughty but now it's much safer.
"Like the $100m fine, it would bring a lot of publicity and it'd be very dramatic. That would be great.
"Imagine if it happened on the last lap of the last race. The guy who was leading at the time, points-wise, would be the winner. So it would be a controversial end."
For what it's worth, Alonso played down the possibility of such a clash. "It will not happen," he confidently said.
10-01-2007 | 12:48 PM
#585
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,218
Likes: 8
From: Miami Beach, FL
And that moment was late Sat. night, so no question he hit the juice!