Wiping out on my first solo
03-23-2007, 06:32 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by MomentumGuy
Not to confuse the subject much more, but there are quite a few threads on this board discussing liability in the event of an accident. If the instructor turns off any electronic aids that may prevent a mishap, couldn't the instructor be seen as liable in the event of an accident?
starts when I (instructor) sit next to a student. It is my hope that participants enter with eyes wide open and like Vegas what happens at the track stays at the track, its a gentlemens deal from my perspective. Clearly safety and caution need to be observed but if instructors become the target of litigation because "he/she" was in the car providing guidence (could be anything) this entire sport which I personally love will stop faster than an F1 car.
03-23-2007, 06:43 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by paradisenb
I'm curious, how many DEs or track days did you have before being signed off for solo?...
Originally Posted by paradisenb
What car were you driving? 911, 996, 997, GT3?...
03-23-2007, 10:09 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by paradisenb
I'm curious, how many DEs or track days did you have before being signed off for solo?
What car were you driving? 911, 996, 997, GT3?
Did you spin twice the same day? Did they end your day right then and there?
What car were you driving? 911, 996, 997, GT3?
Did you spin twice the same day? Did they end your day right then and there?
At my local track any spin or off track in a DE gets you immediate sideline discussion. Maybe you be allowed out again that day depending on outcome/ driver attitiude/lesson learned,etc. A second OC or spin and you are done for the day and will be required school/personal instruction before being allowed back. Is aggressive but ocurances are few and far between.
As a green driver - I remind myself the biggest rookie mistake - cleared for solo = drive the car faster than when instructor was in the car.
Is the natural reaction for me - knowing the car has a lot more left. For my driving skills to reach the car's capability I need plenty of seat time.
I love the suggestion to pull off and regroup when missing braking points and apexes. Great tip I will put it to use if needed.
03-23-2007, 10:48 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by mhm993
Leif
On the subject of Tommy Mac, did he also tell you, as your first instructor, his line comparing an apex and a woman's anatomy....almost getting in is not good enough!?
On the subject of Tommy Mac, did he also tell you, as your first instructor, his line comparing an apex and a woman's anatomy....almost getting in is not good enough!?
yeah...there are a lot of "Mac-isms"....someone should write a book about him...he has to be one of the funniest, most endearing people I have had the pleasure of knowing.
03-24-2007, 12:09 AM
#51
Race Director
Turn PSM back on...it does not slow you down if you drive the car correctly. PSM will bot engage until right past the limits of the car. Your Porsche Driving Experiance instructors up in Birmingham know more than your local club instructor about the new Porsche's and their advice to leave PSM on the the correct advice.
03-24-2007, 01:11 AM
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03-24-2007, 02:59 AM
#53
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don't ask to have an instructor to ride with you on your next event
just drive slower, keep PSM on gain confidence and independence and then ask people to ride with you for a session and give you pointers
first time i was out solo.. i just drove slower
just drive slower, keep PSM on gain confidence and independence and then ask people to ride with you for a session and give you pointers
first time i was out solo.. i just drove slower
03-24-2007, 10:05 AM
#54
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Pre 2005 PSM has pretty sensitive limits.
2005 and above PSM the limits are wider. Wider still with the 'Sport' button depressed.
In either case it can be a teacher...activation can indicate your not being smooth ....your driving style needs work...
If you are doing everything right, you won't experience it.
2005 and above PSM the limits are wider. Wider still with the 'Sport' button depressed.
In either case it can be a teacher...activation can indicate your not being smooth ....your driving style needs work...
If you are doing everything right, you won't experience it.
03-24-2007, 11:09 AM
#55
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Yikes!!! What did I start?
First off, I want to say that all my instructors have been first rate. They were all very informative and frank. With the instructors in my car I drove at the appropriate speed and I drove well. I made the right turn-ins, apexes and track outs. I was smooth on the gas and brakes. My steering inputs were smooth. PSM never came on while I was driving. Three of my instructors had told me that I was good enough to drive solo. A fourth instructor gave me the test and said I passed with flying colors. So everyone, lay off the instructors. They did their job and I think they did it well.
So here's what I did wrong: When I started to go solo, I was driving just like I did with the instructors in the car. Then with each lap, I started to pick up speed. I was still picking very nice lines and the ride was smooth.
Now something I neglected to mention was that at some point in the middle of the first day (two day event) my rear PS2s started showing a little bit of cord. I decided to call it quits and started to look for replacements. I was able to get a pair of Toyo Proxes T1Rs. The next day when I got back on the track I started to notice the PSM coming on way too early. For the record, my mechanic has confirmed that the car is spitting out an error code about the PSM sensor. After speaking with several instructors the advice was to drive without the PSM but to drive cautiously.
With the PSM off I was doing great through the tighter turns but because I didn't have my safety net I became scared on the high speed sections. And like an idiot, rather than slow down, I became jerky. After reading all the great advice you guys gave me in this thread I see my errors. My first spins was because I let off the gas instead of eazing off it. The second spin was because I was too abrupt on the brakes before entering the turn and the car never got settled.
My spins were 100% my fault for pushing myself beyond my comfort zone. And I can't say I regret that it happened. I definitely learned a lot from that lesson. I will, however, only drive track days with PSM on. No PSM, no ride.
First off, I want to say that all my instructors have been first rate. They were all very informative and frank. With the instructors in my car I drove at the appropriate speed and I drove well. I made the right turn-ins, apexes and track outs. I was smooth on the gas and brakes. My steering inputs were smooth. PSM never came on while I was driving. Three of my instructors had told me that I was good enough to drive solo. A fourth instructor gave me the test and said I passed with flying colors. So everyone, lay off the instructors. They did their job and I think they did it well.
So here's what I did wrong: When I started to go solo, I was driving just like I did with the instructors in the car. Then with each lap, I started to pick up speed. I was still picking very nice lines and the ride was smooth.
Now something I neglected to mention was that at some point in the middle of the first day (two day event) my rear PS2s started showing a little bit of cord. I decided to call it quits and started to look for replacements. I was able to get a pair of Toyo Proxes T1Rs. The next day when I got back on the track I started to notice the PSM coming on way too early. For the record, my mechanic has confirmed that the car is spitting out an error code about the PSM sensor. After speaking with several instructors the advice was to drive without the PSM but to drive cautiously.
With the PSM off I was doing great through the tighter turns but because I didn't have my safety net I became scared on the high speed sections. And like an idiot, rather than slow down, I became jerky. After reading all the great advice you guys gave me in this thread I see my errors. My first spins was because I let off the gas instead of eazing off it. The second spin was because I was too abrupt on the brakes before entering the turn and the car never got settled.
My spins were 100% my fault for pushing myself beyond my comfort zone. And I can't say I regret that it happened. I definitely learned a lot from that lesson. I will, however, only drive track days with PSM on. No PSM, no ride.
03-24-2007, 12:11 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by Dirty Mac
Now something I neglected to mention was that at some point in the middle of the first day (two day event) my rear PS2s started showing a little bit of cord. I decided to call it quits and started to look for replacements. I was able to get a pair of Toyo Proxes T1Rs. The next day when I got back on the track I started to notice the PSM coming on way too early.
.
.
Bad thing to do, different grip levels & handling characteristics. (the Toyo Proxes T1Rs are a harder tire than PS2.
NEVER NEVER mix tires
What car are you driving BTW????
Originally Posted by Dirty Mac
For the record, my mechanic has confirmed that the car is spitting out an error code about the PSM sensor.
If there is a PSM fault it will show up in your OBC....
03-24-2007, 03:55 PM
#59
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I'm no expert but hope I can add something, I spun on my first solo outing. Very embarrasing for both me and my instructor who was standing w/ the steward who said to my instructor, "So what's up w/ that, huh?". I did the big nasty lift on what I perceived to be an overcooked turn too.
I have spun many times since then for various reasons but been lucky to keep the shiny side shiny. My take is spins have nothing to do w/ a tire mismatch or PSM. It has to do w/ assuming things are the same on every outing. Start relatively slow. Waste a couple of laps feeling the car and your mental state.
Not that you are, but don't leave your PSM on just because of this one misadventure. Leave it on because you're on a learning curve and aren't ready to experiment w/ fire yet. Personally, I don't have it. I would recommend to leave it on for the casual. But in my opinion only, it sounds like it won't be long before you are close to the car's limits and PSM will do damn little to help you there. OK, it may mean you can go off straight instead of sideways, but if you're going off, PSM will not prevent it at 10/10ths. So you might as well leave it off if you are risk averse enough and intend on getting to the 10/10ths. You get little snippets of car control challenges which PSM might prevent you from having to deal with on your way up the curve. Leave it on if you want to protect your car and want to have fun and stay casual. Leave it off if you want to get hardcore driving skills, but pretend like you're driving a new car every session. Bet your past this anyways, especially now. And get an instructor every once in awhile no matter what level you're at.
PS. You will spin again. Can you predict why? Bet it's because you lift again. "But I only lifted a LITTLE BIDDY bit! Or "I was just going to neutral throttle"..." Good luck :-)
I have spun many times since then for various reasons but been lucky to keep the shiny side shiny. My take is spins have nothing to do w/ a tire mismatch or PSM. It has to do w/ assuming things are the same on every outing. Start relatively slow. Waste a couple of laps feeling the car and your mental state.
Not that you are, but don't leave your PSM on just because of this one misadventure. Leave it on because you're on a learning curve and aren't ready to experiment w/ fire yet. Personally, I don't have it. I would recommend to leave it on for the casual. But in my opinion only, it sounds like it won't be long before you are close to the car's limits and PSM will do damn little to help you there. OK, it may mean you can go off straight instead of sideways, but if you're going off, PSM will not prevent it at 10/10ths. So you might as well leave it off if you are risk averse enough and intend on getting to the 10/10ths. You get little snippets of car control challenges which PSM might prevent you from having to deal with on your way up the curve. Leave it on if you want to protect your car and want to have fun and stay casual. Leave it off if you want to get hardcore driving skills, but pretend like you're driving a new car every session. Bet your past this anyways, especially now. And get an instructor every once in awhile no matter what level you're at.
PS. You will spin again. Can you predict why? Bet it's because you lift again. "But I only lifted a LITTLE BIDDY bit! Or "I was just going to neutral throttle"..." Good luck :-)
03-24-2007, 04:11 PM
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"Now something I neglected to mention was that at some point in the middle of the first day..."
Yea- that kinda adds to the story.
Were the tires worn from regular wear or was there an alignment issue?
I'd give that PSM was saving your bacon with the mismatch tires. It was detecting the mismatch tires with the different traction levels. At speed, it'll certainly feel it.
Yea- that kinda adds to the story.
Were the tires worn from regular wear or was there an alignment issue?
I'd give that PSM was saving your bacon with the mismatch tires. It was detecting the mismatch tires with the different traction levels. At speed, it'll certainly feel it.