Stuttgart

I am looking at possibly buying a 72,73 S or E sometime in the future. I've done driver ed. events and want to do some real racing. I would be in F or G stock with cage, fire sys., and a most of the allowed performance mods. I still want to drive the car on the street on a regular basis. If i put my car into the wall, that is my problem. But with the 13/13 rule is "paint trading" between racers still happen often? Also, i've seen a couple S and E 911's do ok in F and G stock(respectively), but if I eventually become a good driver can these cars do better?
Any input is greatly appreciated

Dave Banazek

I think there was an article in the club racing news talked about the number of "incidents", ie damage done to a car. I think they were average around 5-7 per weekend with 100-150 cars. The stewards were not happy about it and are trying to get the number down. These seem to be more from wrecks than from real close "paint trading" incidents. The drivers seem to give you enough track room to drive on.

You will get plenty of chips from flying rocks though. But you still see plenty of beautiful cars out there.

JC in NY

PCA club racing is pretty brutal so you should write the car off before you begin and then just have fun.

As far as being competitive it's all going to be driver in those stock classes you mentioned. If you're really good you can finish on the podium. Your car has to be spot on perfect and you'll need to be driving at 10/10ths to beat the top guys. So yes it is possible in that car but you need to be *very* fast.

Take a look at the past PCA clubrace laptimes that are available on the <a href="http://www.pca.org" target="_blank">www.pca.org</a> website. Remember those are fastest race times and the qualifying times are even lower. Are you at that level? You need to be faster than that in your car to be competitive. It's very tough.

Carrera51

JC:
You said: "PCA club racing is pretty brutal so you should write the car off before you begin..." I hope that very few people share your views. If you truely believe that then I hope I am never on the track with you.

Sure the number of on track incidents has increased recently, and sure there are a few drivers who could use their heads a little more, but if everyone was willing to "write their car off" then PCA Club Racing should switch from road racing to a smash up derby.

Mark Francis
84 Carrera E Class

Greg Fishman

Mark,
My thoughts exactly. I am not willing to write off my car, I know stuff can happen but... I wonder what experience JC has to write such crap.
Greg

JC in NY

In retrospect that was a little harsh. PCA racing is safe and fun. There are too many minor accidents however; but at least PCA enforces safety with probation and suspensions (read 13/13 rule). I do not race myself but I participate in the organiztion of events in the NE whenever I can. I will be out there soon. I do not plan to have any events occur to me.

Howard

I have no experience with racing in the PCA, but with the POC any "paint trading" is punishable by the 13/13 rule. There are very few incidents in POC club racing and most are attributable to mechanical failure/driver error in some way. Any incident is reviewed and if the driver is at fault ,whether it be an error in judgement or driving too aggressively he will end up with a 13/13.
As far as "writing your car off", you WILL get; dings, scratches, stone chips, windshield chips,rubber marks..etc., but hell, they look cool. (from a racer's viewpoint)

Carrera51

You sure will get stone chips, dings in the windshield, rubber marks, and a lot of wear and tear that you wouldn't normally incur with just street driving. But man is it fun! When I stop racing, my car will definately need cosmetic attention. Fortunately, so far I haven't incurred any body damage (myself or the car).

JC, sorry if I was a little harse on you, but when I hear people talk like it would be no big deal to waste their car in a race, I get a little irritated. Sure, there are some who will take unecessary risks and make poor decisions on the track, knowing that they can afford to replace their car , if they wreck it along with someone elses, but the majority of club racers, that I know personally, are out there to engage in a little friendly competition.

JC in NY

No problem. I see where my comment was misconstrued. I did not mean that one should go into it with the attitude that the car is expendable, although I'm sure there is a fraction of the contingent that unfortunately thinks that way. Luckily the 13/13 rule keeps them out of the action.

UrbanSasquatch

There are inevitably going to be "incidents" any time you have a series as popular as PCA club racing- 5-7 13/13's in a weekend is probably too many still, but query how many are bumps and how many are rollovers. I would NEVER be cavalier about getting in a "Shunt" even though my own view is "if you can't afford to wreck it, you can't afford to race it"- the car is replacable but not without significant headache, to say nothing of damage to the irreplaceable nut behind the wheel.

An early car in "F" or "G" that can be driven on the street- that's THEORETICALLY what the organizers had in mind. But to be competitive in that class, you will have to have flared fenders- remember that SCs are running 245 front, 275 rear, while in a narrow-body car the max is about 225. Also, everybody runs monoballs front and rear and super-stiff torsion bars, fiberglass front and rear bumpers/spoilers, all in the pursuit of speed. So even though it's called PCA "Stock" class racing, it's pretty far from "stock."

So I would say that unless you are prepared to spend $$,$$$ to prepare an early car for F or G, you will be outgunned. Nothing personal about it- you could be Schumacher but the later cars have a significant advantage. The fellow I bought my H-stock "E" from used to run it in "G" with an "S" motor and was tire-limited, but because he's a great driver, managed some top five finishes among the SC's. Know what he replaced it with? An SC. Saw him at Lime Rock on Saturday, hanging with the E cars. Look for the cars that say "G-men" on the side, and note the extent of the preparation there, and how fast the times are. E.g. Robert Mazey ran a 1.04.8 at Lime Rock last year, right behind Oliver Zitzmann's F-Stock C2 with a 1.01.2. That ain't fast, that's FLYIN'.

But I'm getting out there, even if I end up DFL- my goal is to run a solid, safe race: the lap times come with experience, and there's only one way to get it. Best of luck and we'll see you at the track- I'll be the one with the rookie "X."

Michael Ghia

Stuttgart,
Give Dave Coleman a ring at Performance Engineering at Summit Point. He's been into racing early Porsche's for years, (won a few championships too!) and should be able to point you in the right direction for a car. He may even have something at his workshop that you might be interested in.
The other guys who work there (Billy who now runs Performance Engineering and Rich who runs Performance Autowerks) are also well into the racing field. They also built and look after the OG Racing car.
You can reach them on 304 725 8333
Mike Ghia

cmoss

I think JC has a point though. Taking a car to the track means accepting certain possibilities. And it's important to accept those possibilities so that one is not overly depressed by the inevitible chips cracks and dings. The idea is to have fun . -And keep a cool head.
Go fast
chris