cool gg graph...
Thread Starter
A Banned 'Haiku Victim'
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,367
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From: los angeles, san francisco, phoenix, tokyo, taipei
cool gg graph...
<img src="http://dl90.com/images/gg-ws-graphs.gif" alt=" - " />
i thought i share it with you guys. i'm working on an article which will use this gg graph.
green - 996 TT (520 hp, ~3800 w/driver/passenger), driven by my student (1st time ever! he did great)
red - 996 TT (520 hp, ~3800 w/driver/passenger), driven by me (going 8.5-9/10th)
blue - civic (135 hp, 2300 lbs w/driver) driven by me going 10/10th
996 has decent street tires on (continental sports contact 2), huge 15" brembo 8 piston, 4 pads (per caliper) setup. by seat of pants it didn't feel as good as the stock "big reds" though. but perhaps maybe the sheer straight line speed (151 mph on front straight of willow springs) was just so fast it didn't feel like it was slowing down enough.
civic has good street tires (195/60/14 falken azenis), with the pepboys raybestos ceramic enhanced pads, thus only 0.9 g underbraking. with good pads it has recorded 1.1g on the logger.
both cars were in 3rd gear, never into second. look at how much acceleration the TT has. cornering grip was good despites so so tires thanks to huge foot print and AWD.
i thought i share it with you guys. i'm working on an article which will use this gg graph.
green - 996 TT (520 hp, ~3800 w/driver/passenger), driven by my student (1st time ever! he did great)
red - 996 TT (520 hp, ~3800 w/driver/passenger), driven by me (going 8.5-9/10th)
blue - civic (135 hp, 2300 lbs w/driver) driven by me going 10/10th
996 has decent street tires on (continental sports contact 2), huge 15" brembo 8 piston, 4 pads (per caliper) setup. by seat of pants it didn't feel as good as the stock "big reds" though. but perhaps maybe the sheer straight line speed (151 mph on front straight of willow springs) was just so fast it didn't feel like it was slowing down enough.
civic has good street tires (195/60/14 falken azenis), with the pepboys raybestos ceramic enhanced pads, thus only 0.9 g underbraking. with good pads it has recorded 1.1g on the logger.
both cars were in 3rd gear, never into second. look at how much acceleration the TT has. cornering grip was good despites so so tires thanks to huge foot print and AWD.
Thread Starter
A Banned 'Haiku Victim'
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,367
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From: los angeles, san francisco, phoenix, tokyo, taipei
actually, the extra G's is from hill compression/banking of T3... WS is a predominately right hand turn track.
<img src="http://ghettoracer.com/cars/eg/ryan-reese/ws-map.gif" alt=" - " />
this graph below shows the concentration.
<img src="http://dl90.com/images/gg-ws-996-tt.gif" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://ghettoracer.com/cars/eg/ryan-reese/ws-map.gif" alt=" - " />
this graph below shows the concentration.
<img src="http://dl90.com/images/gg-ws-996-tt.gif" alt=" - " />
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,331
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From: Villanova, PA
Hi Frank. Let me ask you a question.
Do you want us to believe that a 996TT with street tires is capable of 1.38 lateral g's? Just wondering because according to your math, if you drove at 85% (8.5/10th), then the car must be capable of 1.38 g's total since 1.2g's (your 8.5/10th g reading) x 15% (amount left over from your 8.5/10th driving) = .18g's. Add that to 1.2 that you measured and you get 1.38g's.
Now I can assume one of three things:
1. Your G meter sucks
2. Your butt meter sucks (measures percentage of car capability)
3. They both suck.
To be honest, I don't know many racers that rely too heavily on the gg graph for useful information. Should be an interesting article though, keep us posted.
E. J.
Do you want us to believe that a 996TT with street tires is capable of 1.38 lateral g's? Just wondering because according to your math, if you drove at 85% (8.5/10th), then the car must be capable of 1.38 g's total since 1.2g's (your 8.5/10th g reading) x 15% (amount left over from your 8.5/10th driving) = .18g's. Add that to 1.2 that you measured and you get 1.38g's.
Now I can assume one of three things:
1. Your G meter sucks
2. Your butt meter sucks (measures percentage of car capability)
3. They both suck.
To be honest, I don't know many racers that rely too heavily on the gg graph for useful information. Should be an interesting article though, keep us posted.
E. J.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 982
Likes: 0
From: Montréal, Canada
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by E. J. - 993 Alumni:
<strong>Hi Frank. Let me ask you a question.
Do you want us to believe that a 996TT with street tires is capable of 1.38 lateral g's? Just wondering because according to your math, if you drove at 85% (8.5/10th), then the car must be capable of 1.38 g's total since 1.2g's (your 8.5/10th g reading) x 15% (amount left over from your 8.5/10th driving) = .18g's. Add that to 1.2 that you measured and you get 1.38g's.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Many cars are capable of attaining that level of lateral g's, just not continuously. It is more a instantaneous value. Just MHO.
<strong>Hi Frank. Let me ask you a question.
Do you want us to believe that a 996TT with street tires is capable of 1.38 lateral g's? Just wondering because according to your math, if you drove at 85% (8.5/10th), then the car must be capable of 1.38 g's total since 1.2g's (your 8.5/10th g reading) x 15% (amount left over from your 8.5/10th driving) = .18g's. Add that to 1.2 that you measured and you get 1.38g's.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Many cars are capable of attaining that level of lateral g's, just not continuously. It is more a instantaneous value. Just MHO.
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 0
From: Villanova, PA
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by 924Superwagen:
<strong>]Many cars are capable of attaining that level of lateral g's, just not continuously. It is more a instantaneous value.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I disagree 100%. If that was the case, why wouldn't the manufacturers and magazines use those instant values to make their cars seem more capable then? Also look at the second graph picture, there are lots of 1.2 dots on the graph, not one or two.
<img src="http://dl90.com/images/gg-ws-996-tt.gif" alt=" - " />
Go <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/trde/tqde.pl?read=10220" target="_blank">here</a> for a better discussion of the facts.
<strong>]Many cars are capable of attaining that level of lateral g's, just not continuously. It is more a instantaneous value.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I disagree 100%. If that was the case, why wouldn't the manufacturers and magazines use those instant values to make their cars seem more capable then? Also look at the second graph picture, there are lots of 1.2 dots on the graph, not one or two.
<img src="http://dl90.com/images/gg-ws-996-tt.gif" alt=" - " />
Go <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/trde/tqde.pl?read=10220" target="_blank">here</a> for a better discussion of the facts.
Thread Starter
A Banned 'Haiku Victim'
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,367
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From: los angeles, san francisco, phoenix, tokyo, taipei
everything is relative. why must you guys try to make it absolute? i took some corners easy, say 7/10th. some corners harder, say 9/10th maybe 9.5/10th. averages out roughly around 8.5/10th. well within safety margins and my students always enjoyed their ride. on the turns where we spiked to 1.2g, i was going about 9.5/10th in his car.
8.5/10th is my evaluation of what i drove to the cars overall capability. i never got a clean lap in, and the fastest lap recorded was "only" 1:38 (willow springs). on a clean 8.5/10th lap it should have been a 1:36 or so. and sub 1:33 is probably not out of the question for someone's willing to take the car to the limit. my student ran about 1:48 or so. not too shabby for his first time. my civic ran 1:41's all day long, and that is just about on the limit everywhere.
in regards to the banking g's not being "real". every car goes through that corner is able to generate the G's. there is a reason why skippad are used... so the conditions are some what controled... ie, 100, 200, or 300 ft skidpad, averaged through out a lap, both directions. the 1.2g is certainly, spikes, and from banking. but it is very real and the driver/passenger can totally feel it. 1.2g sustained would be pretty darn impressive. we all know good street tires can do max of about 1g on a skidpad.
the overlay is just kinda a cool graph to look at. nothing more, nothing less. it doesn't show the cencentration of the time spent in the envelop. but it does give quick overview of what the car/driver did. every graph have their pros/cons.
8.5/10th is my evaluation of what i drove to the cars overall capability. i never got a clean lap in, and the fastest lap recorded was "only" 1:38 (willow springs). on a clean 8.5/10th lap it should have been a 1:36 or so. and sub 1:33 is probably not out of the question for someone's willing to take the car to the limit. my student ran about 1:48 or so. not too shabby for his first time. my civic ran 1:41's all day long, and that is just about on the limit everywhere.
in regards to the banking g's not being "real". every car goes through that corner is able to generate the G's. there is a reason why skippad are used... so the conditions are some what controled... ie, 100, 200, or 300 ft skidpad, averaged through out a lap, both directions. the 1.2g is certainly, spikes, and from banking. but it is very real and the driver/passenger can totally feel it. 1.2g sustained would be pretty darn impressive. we all know good street tires can do max of about 1g on a skidpad.
the overlay is just kinda a cool graph to look at. nothing more, nothing less. it doesn't show the cencentration of the time spent in the envelop. but it does give quick overview of what the car/driver did. every graph have their pros/cons.
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Instructor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 174
Likes: 1
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
Gents
My take on this is that the scale for measuring driving effort is based similar to the Richter scale which measures earthquakes. An increase from 8/10 driving to 10/10 driving does not mean the car is going to do lap times that are 20% quicker. It only means that the effort required to make your car go quicker exponentially increases for each 1/10%. It is much harder to lap consistently at 9/10ths than at 8/10ths even though your lap times may only improve by .3 or .4 of a second per lap. It is also a personal thing - one man's 10/10ths is another man's 8/10 when lap times are compared. This is what makes us look up in awe at the greats - they just have that elusive 'magic' component that makes them quicker.
My take on this is that the scale for measuring driving effort is based similar to the Richter scale which measures earthquakes. An increase from 8/10 driving to 10/10 driving does not mean the car is going to do lap times that are 20% quicker. It only means that the effort required to make your car go quicker exponentially increases for each 1/10%. It is much harder to lap consistently at 9/10ths than at 8/10ths even though your lap times may only improve by .3 or .4 of a second per lap. It is also a personal thing - one man's 10/10ths is another man's 8/10 when lap times are compared. This is what makes us look up in awe at the greats - they just have that elusive 'magic' component that makes them quicker.