Champ Car drivers are inferior to F1 drivers?
12-20-2006, 12:12 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
So you are telling me Zsolt Baumgartner is a better driver than SeaBass? You must be since he was offered a ride, or did he buy a ride? I forget, how many people in F1 showed up with a large bag of money who were then placed into the car in front of someone who could out drive them? How dare I suggest such a thing happens in the highest tier of auto racing.
No way, the best 20ish drivers on the planet are in F1. Miraculously chosen by some divine power (might be the pope, not sure) to guarantee only the BEST drivers in the world step foot into an F1 car.
Michael Schumacher is the best, right? Did he win the race of champions last year? I forgot, did he? He’s the best of the best of the best, right? How about David Coulthard? How long has he been around again? Wow, he must have won this year’s race of champions then, since the F1 drivers are THE BEST!!!!! Bar none, no matter what, right?
I don’t follow DTM, on too late for my schedule. I’m assuming Jean Alesi and Mika Hakkinen must finish every DTM race 1 – 2 since they are the best of the best in some armature series driving tin tops.
Jean Pablo will win every NASCAR race next year, he better since he is one of the BEST!!!! 10 driver in the world (he was usually 10th or better, so going on that theory).
How about former F1 champion Jacques Villeneuve – HE BEAT SCHUMATHER IN 1997!!!! Oh My God, he is awesome then, since this is the best of the best of the best and he beat them all in 1997, right? So this year in NASCAR trucks I’m sure he will lap the field in every race, since, again, if you make it into F1 you are THE BEST!!!!
Funny thing is, I don’t like SeaBass very much He annoys me.
No way, the best 20ish drivers on the planet are in F1. Miraculously chosen by some divine power (might be the pope, not sure) to guarantee only the BEST drivers in the world step foot into an F1 car.
Michael Schumacher is the best, right? Did he win the race of champions last year? I forgot, did he? He’s the best of the best of the best, right? How about David Coulthard? How long has he been around again? Wow, he must have won this year’s race of champions then, since the F1 drivers are THE BEST!!!!! Bar none, no matter what, right?
I don’t follow DTM, on too late for my schedule. I’m assuming Jean Alesi and Mika Hakkinen must finish every DTM race 1 – 2 since they are the best of the best in some armature series driving tin tops.
Jean Pablo will win every NASCAR race next year, he better since he is one of the BEST!!!! 10 driver in the world (he was usually 10th or better, so going on that theory).
How about former F1 champion Jacques Villeneuve – HE BEAT SCHUMATHER IN 1997!!!! Oh My God, he is awesome then, since this is the best of the best of the best and he beat them all in 1997, right? So this year in NASCAR trucks I’m sure he will lap the field in every race, since, again, if you make it into F1 you are THE BEST!!!!
Funny thing is, I don’t like SeaBass very much He annoys me.
But maybe you remember a guy named Lauda who started out paying for his seat at March......did good enough to get a BRM ride and was discovered by Enzo in Monaco. The rest is history.
12-20-2006, 12:16 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by Geo
If you're referring to Michael, you're the only person who thought the McLaren was a top car that year. Virtually everyone else thought it was a dog.
12-20-2006, 01:35 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Flying Finn
What were the set-ups? Duties (tyre test, old tyres, long runs etc.)?
Without those there's no point comparing. i.e. earlier this year Piguet jr. was faster than Kovalainen on same day but when you hear what they did (Kovalainen had same tyres the whole day while Piquet had fresh fast tyres) you got the confirmation what we know, Kovalainen is better.
Besides, if Scott (slow)Speed is who you're comparing...
This is not to say Bourdais is not fast, I think he could do well in F1 and if i were F1 boss, I'd much rather give him the car that to i.e. Scot Speed or any of the Japanese guys out there at the moment.
Without those there's no point comparing. i.e. earlier this year Piguet jr. was faster than Kovalainen on same day but when you hear what they did (Kovalainen had same tyres the whole day while Piquet had fresh fast tyres) you got the confirmation what we know, Kovalainen is better.
Besides, if Scott (slow)Speed is who you're comparing...
This is not to say Bourdais is not fast, I think he could do well in F1 and if i were F1 boss, I'd much rather give him the car that to i.e. Scot Speed or any of the Japanese guys out there at the moment.
12-20-2006, 03:17 AM
#49
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I'm still not in agreement with you guys on this one , There is no proof that SB is faster than scott Speed! I would put cash on Scott that he is faster and better than SB at this moment
12-20-2006, 08:11 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
I'm still not in agreement with you guys on this one , There is no proof that SB is faster than scott Speed! I would put cash on Scott that he is faster and better than SB at this moment
12-20-2006, 09:27 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
FInn,
I would disagree about comparing the drivers. senna and mika was from the same era of cars and drivers so was mansel , rosberg etc. the comparision can be made . the speed rosberg had against his contemporaries , who i must add , was at a much higher level than when Mika and MS where competing. Rosberg had to competer against 5 WC and 3 WC to be.
I know all about Mika . H and Mika S. actually Mika S was who most thought was better ( myself included ) but Mika H is who got the break... But the most talented of them all to me had to be JJ lehto , who if he was given the chance to recover from his injuries( like Mika H ) would have had a strong F1 career , as i thought him to be better than both Salo and Hak.
Personally , i believe what saved Mika's Career , was that his injury came very early after the death of Senna , as Ron was devastated and vowed to help Mika .
JJ. Lehto did not have this Luxury as MS did not want him as a team MAte
and with his speed you can understand why..
I would disagree about comparing the drivers. senna and mika was from the same era of cars and drivers so was mansel , rosberg etc. the comparision can be made . the speed rosberg had against his contemporaries , who i must add , was at a much higher level than when Mika and MS where competing. Rosberg had to competer against 5 WC and 3 WC to be.
I know all about Mika . H and Mika S. actually Mika S was who most thought was better ( myself included ) but Mika H is who got the break... But the most talented of them all to me had to be JJ lehto , who if he was given the chance to recover from his injuries( like Mika H ) would have had a strong F1 career , as i thought him to be better than both Salo and Hak.
Personally , i believe what saved Mika's Career , was that his injury came very early after the death of Senna , as Ron was devastated and vowed to help Mika .
JJ. Lehto did not have this Luxury as MS did not want him as a team MAte
and with his speed you can understand why..It's not like that anymore.
I agree about J.J. He was very quick when he went to benetton and without the big injury and especially the lack of time to properly heal, physically and mentally, he would've done good. And back then, weird stuff happened at Benetton, after J.J. beat Schumi in qualifying, next race his car had fractured chassis, Schumi had one more button in his steering wheel (J.J. didn;t know what it was) etc.n Schumi certainly didn't want him there...
Hey, I think we agree on more things than we disagree, Merry Christmas!
12-20-2006, 11:51 PM
#52
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Finn,
Yeah strange things always happen to MS teammates , after salo's pole position in Ms ferrari , he could do no better than 9th on the grid after that , car mysteriously lost grip and power.
Who can forget Eddie irvine out qualy michael in australia , then was banned from any testing , had to sit and watch for the rest of the season. Or the ferrari team finding only 3 of his wheels on a pit stop , that took them 5 mins to find the missing wheel , costing Irvine the championship
MS is the most successful GP driver of all time ,i should just leave it at that , but for me, it's like Al Capone recieving the businessman of the year award, 7 times!
Yeah strange things always happen to MS teammates , after salo's pole position in Ms ferrari , he could do no better than 9th on the grid after that , car mysteriously lost grip and power.
Who can forget Eddie irvine out qualy michael in australia , then was banned from any testing , had to sit and watch for the rest of the season. Or the ferrari team finding only 3 of his wheels on a pit stop , that took them 5 mins to find the missing wheel , costing Irvine the championship
MS is the most successful GP driver of all time ,i should just leave it at that , but for me, it's like Al Capone recieving the businessman of the year award, 7 times!
12-21-2006, 01:12 AM
#53
Originally Posted by A.Wayne
Finn,
Yeah strange things always happen to MS teammates , after salo's pole position in Ms ferrari , he could do no better than 9th on the grid after that , car mysteriously lost grip and power.
Who can forget Eddie irvine out qualy michael in australia , then was banned from any testing , had to sit and watch for the rest of the season. Or the ferrari team finding only 3 of his wheels on a pit stop , that took them 5 mins to find the missing wheel , costing Irvine the championship
MS is the most successful GP driver of all time ,i should just leave it at that , but for me, it's like Al Capone recieving the businessman of the year award, 7 times!
Yeah strange things always happen to MS teammates , after salo's pole position in Ms ferrari , he could do no better than 9th on the grid after that , car mysteriously lost grip and power.
Who can forget Eddie irvine out qualy michael in australia , then was banned from any testing , had to sit and watch for the rest of the season. Or the ferrari team finding only 3 of his wheels on a pit stop , that took them 5 mins to find the missing wheel , costing Irvine the championship
MS is the most successful GP driver of all time ,i should just leave it at that , but for me, it's like Al Capone recieving the businessman of the year award, 7 times!
12-21-2006, 01:55 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
Finn,
Yeah strange things always happen to MS teammates , after salo's pole position in Ms ferrari , he could do no better than 9th on the grid after that , car mysteriously lost grip and power.
Who can forget Eddie irvine out qualy michael in australia , then was banned from any testing , had to sit and watch for the rest of the season. Or the ferrari team finding only 3 of his wheels on a pit stop , that took them 5 mins to find the missing wheel , costing Irvine the championship
MS is the most successful GP driver of all time ,i should just leave it at that , but for me, it's like Al Capone recieving the businessman of the year award, 7 times!
Yeah strange things always happen to MS teammates , after salo's pole position in Ms ferrari , he could do no better than 9th on the grid after that , car mysteriously lost grip and power.
Who can forget Eddie irvine out qualy michael in australia , then was banned from any testing , had to sit and watch for the rest of the season. Or the ferrari team finding only 3 of his wheels on a pit stop , that took them 5 mins to find the missing wheel , costing Irvine the championship
MS is the most successful GP driver of all time ,i should just leave it at that , but for me, it's like Al Capone recieving the businessman of the year award, 7 times!
Or the the last race of this year when he was 1.5 seconds faster than the entire field and in the final qualifying session, he "some how" lost his hydrolics.
Or how about in the same race, when he needed to win for a chance at the W/C and he somehow got a puncture.
Or how about this year in Japan when leading the race and with 16 laps to go his engine "just done blowed up". Funny, because that hadn't happened in 6 years and it "all of a sudden" happened when he could have led the Championship comfortably over Alonso with that 10 point win.
Should we go on.... **** happens in racing. Please don't try to say that any of Schumacher's teammates were even close to him, because they weren't in the same zip code as MS.
12-21-2006, 08:52 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by M3Pete
Please don't try to say that any of Schumacher's teammates were even close to him, because they weren't in the same zip code as MS.
Prost had Senna, Lauda, Mansell, Hill.
Senna had Prost, Mika, Hill.
Even Mansell had Prost and Piquet.
So, if you want to talk about Scummies teammates, let's do some real comparisons, shall we?
Give me Prost or Senna any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Those guys were multi champions while not only racing against other WCs, but also having them as teammates!
12-21-2006, 10:17 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by Geo
Yeah, he made damned sure of that. His teammates were nothing but lap dogs.
Prost had Senna, Lauda, Mansell, Hill.
Senna had Prost, Mika, Hill.
Even Mansell had Prost and Piquet.
So, if you want to talk about Scummies teammates, let's do some real comparisons, shall we?
Give me Prost or Senna any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Those guys were multi champions while not only racing against other WCs, but also having them as teammates!
Prost had Senna, Lauda, Mansell, Hill.
Senna had Prost, Mika, Hill.
Even Mansell had Prost and Piquet.
So, if you want to talk about Scummies teammates, let's do some real comparisons, shall we?
Give me Prost or Senna any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Those guys were multi champions while not only racing against other WCs, but also having them as teammates!
12-21-2006, 11:04 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by pcar964
That's going a bit too far, I think. Maybe we should all go back and watch some of his races with Bennetton, or his great drives with Ferrari during the first couple seasons. Or hell, how about watching his LAST RACE where he was setting fast laps until the end. You might question his tactics in some cases, but his talent is unquestionable imho.
all my statements are based on factual events , not MY OPINION !
12-21-2006, 11:11 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by M3Pete
Or remember the time, Michael's car mysteriously lost all but 1 gear in a race and still had to make a pit stop. He "Only" came in 2nd in that race and not 1st.
Or the the last race of this year when he was 1.5 seconds faster than the entire field and in the final qualifying session, he "some how" lost his hydrolics.
Or how about in the same race, when he needed to win for a chance at the W/C and he somehow got a puncture.
Or how about this year in Japan when leading the race and with 16 laps to go his engine "just done blowed up". Funny, because that hadn't happened in 6 years and it "all of a sudden" happened when he could have led the Championship comfortably over Alonso with that 10 point win.
Should we go on.... **** happens in racing. Please don't try to say that any of Schumacher's teammates were even close to him, because they weren't in the same zip code as MS.
Or the the last race of this year when he was 1.5 seconds faster than the entire field and in the final qualifying session, he "some how" lost his hydrolics.
Or how about in the same race, when he needed to win for a chance at the W/C and he somehow got a puncture.
Or how about this year in Japan when leading the race and with 16 laps to go his engine "just done blowed up". Funny, because that hadn't happened in 6 years and it "all of a sudden" happened when he could have led the Championship comfortably over Alonso with that 10 point win.
Should we go on.... **** happens in racing. Please don't try to say that any of Schumacher's teammates were even close to him, because they weren't in the same zip code as MS.
So in a career where he dish's out a lot of **** , he finally has some come his way and bam POOR MICHAEL ! THE UNIVERSE HAS EQUALIBRIUM it balaced somewhat this year, I'm happy to move on, THE KING IS DEAD , LONG LIVE THE KING
Barrichelo, Barichello , Move over , the king wants to pass, that is an order !
12-21-2006, 11:12 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by Geo
Yeah, he made damned sure of that. His teammates were nothing but lap dogs.
Prost had Senna, Lauda, Mansell, Hill.
Senna had Prost, Mika, Hill.
Even Mansell had Prost and Piquet.
So, if you want to talk about Scummies teammates, let's do some real comparisons, shall we?
Give me Prost or Senna any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Those guys were multi champions while not only racing against other WCs, but also having them as teammates!
Prost had Senna, Lauda, Mansell, Hill.
Senna had Prost, Mika, Hill.
Even Mansell had Prost and Piquet.
So, if you want to talk about Scummies teammates, let's do some real comparisons, shall we?
Give me Prost or Senna any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Those guys were multi champions while not only racing against other WCs, but also having them as teammates!
12-21-2006, 11:37 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
AGAIN ANOTHER WHO WANTS TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY WHEN FACED WITH FACTS, schumacher had no failures for 6 yrs , how many engine failures over the 6 yrs by his Teammates? while he has been better than his teammate said teammate would have beaten that putz at least 3-4 times a year , How many W/C would michael have won giving away 3-4 victories a Yr.
So in a career where he dish's out a lot of **** , he finally has some come his way and bam POOR MICHAEL ! THE UNIVERSE HAS EQUALIBRIUM it balaced somewhat this year, I'm happy to move on, THE KING IS DEAD , LONG LIVE THE KING
Barrichelo, Barichello , Move over , the king wants to pass, that is an order !
So in a career where he dish's out a lot of **** , he finally has some come his way and bam POOR MICHAEL ! THE UNIVERSE HAS EQUALIBRIUM it balaced somewhat this year, I'm happy to move on, THE KING IS DEAD , LONG LIVE THE KING
Barrichelo, Barichello , Move over , the king wants to pass, that is an order !