analogmike

At ON TRACK CARTING I dont think it's fastest to leave the throttle down all the time. The cars seem to be faster just on the edge, before you slide (which sucks all your speed). So I lift for four of the turns.

You CAN take all the turns without braking, by scrubbing speed (sometimes pitching the car the wrong way 1st which is something we do on some tracks a bit too) but not sure the no-braking method is the fast way yet.

Driving these carts is addicting and not so easy, I go with two other multi-national-champion autocrossers and we cant get down to the lap times the really fast guys get yet. It DOES help with track driving as it teaches you to look ahead and pay attention to flags. Also teaches you to time passing and how to get a good qualifying lap in. And a lot cheaper than ANY track time at a racetrack.

multi21

ITC does have some valid points. I used to race Rotax karts and my daughter still does. Because we never had a chance to race against each other for obvious reasons, we head out to an indoor track every once in a while to see if she can beat the old man. She has a less powerful kart due to her height/age, but all I do is keep my foot on the gas 100% of the time and modulate my speed with brake pressure. That doesn't translate to track driving (ITC's point), but IMO everything else does.

I used to kart, autocross and do DE's all in the same season and found that it was great "Cross Training". Each required different skills, but translated to the others very well. You can't match the g forces experienced in an outdoor kart, but indoor karting can be very exhausting as well.

Aside from lateral grip, everything happens much faster in a kart vs. a DE. Naturally left foot braking due to karting gave me the muscle memory to use this technique in autocrossing and now, at no point during a hot lap, am I ever off the gas completely and use the left foot braking techinique to balance the car during fast corners and "blend" both the gas and brakes for faster lap times.

Use your own equipment when you go to the indoor karting facility. You don't want your head in someone elses sweat bucket and you'll find yourself to be more comfortable in your own helmet, gloves, etc. If you use a colored full face shield, change over to a clear one for indoor use.

Finally, me, my daughter and my brother have all used Ribtect rib vests with great success and comfort for years.

Post here and tell us how it turns out. I think you will find that it is more demanding than you think and certainly very fun!

mrbill_fl

thats what I do, it works for me...


one final word of caution, IMHO,
you can get hurt easier at a kart track than at a DE.
even with fenders, I've see a kart get air, and land on another kart. have not seen anyone actually hurt at an indoor track, but I'm sure it can happen... it IS RACING, not a DE.

let us know what you think if you try it...

butzip

I'm going to OTK this Sunday @ 1700hrs. I'm going to go solo, maybe a guy from work will tag along but I'm sure he won't run. In life there are passengers and drivers..... he's a passenger. I'll have my DE helmet white KBC with red and blue stripe and P crest maybe I'll see you there!!

Brgds, Peter

cchan

Perhaps it also has to do with the kart track layout. We have a facility in NorCal which is pretty narrow (not much more than 2-3 kart widths) and has a lot of tight turns, pretty much every turn one can burn time with too much slip. It definitely rewards smoothness and looking ahead. After a few good sessions, my sides will be sore from all the lateral Gs, much more physical exertion than I get in DEs.

I haven't been to F1 in Boston, but looking at the map and photos on their website I can see how ITC's comments make sense - that looks like a relatively wide/open layout.

butzip

OK, lap record at www.ontrackkarting.com is 36.4, I ran a 38.1 my first time out. I can definately find 1.5 seconds in there with some more seat time. The overall record holder just happened to be there Sunday night. He, and a group of others, have VIP memberships. Meaning, for $1500.00 you can run unlimited track time. These guys were running when I got there and they were still running when I left. Now I thought I was hard core?!?!? over a 2.5hr period they stopped for MAYBE 20min. I think once a month will be plenty for me.

Sodi karts, very twitchy for the first 2 laps, first corner entry speed approaching 35-40mph right next to the wall. Thankfully they are not open wheeled :-)

Brgds, Peter

analogmike

38.1 is a good time for your first time there. I think I was a little slower than that my 1st time, then 2nd time got down to 37.6. 3rd time I could not get that fast again due to my crash. My fast autox friends seem to be stuck at 37.2, it's really hard to break a 37.

At the Farnbacher-Loles open house on Saturday they showed off a bunch of FAST gocarts they will be dealing. They hope to build a track somewhere in our area, can't wait!

Conekiller

a little bit OT has anyone done the enduro carting at LRP?

cooleyjb

So the question is how much does the lap record holder weigh. In karts like those, 20-30 pounds is a noticeable difference and 50lbs is huge. At one of the tracks I've been too the track record was held but a some kid who was a young teenager who weighed under a 100lbs.

Yeah people who run unlimited time must have forearms of steel.

ltc

That track has been discussed in the paddock at my son's current outdoor 'home' track www.f1outdoors.com for the past year.

If they build it, we'll definitely be there, as I'm sure will many other locals, likely the FR125 Rotax owners and the 125 ICC Shifters.

My 13 year old son currently hits about 65mph on his Arrow AX9/FR125 Jr Rotax (no, his mother does not like to come to the track), the ICC guys exceed 85.

ltc

Thanks.
Yes, you can use indoor kart driving to learn how to recognize/drive a line, but depending on the track/equipment, you are likely to develop bad habits, or habits that don't translate to 'normal' driving.

Karts don't want to turn, it's not their fault, it's just their nature, a solid/live rear axle just makes them go straight ahead.
For a kart to turn, it must lift the inside rear tire. In order to to this (coupled with no suspension in a kart), the rear axle must flex and/or the chassis must bend/flex.....insert "black magic chassis tuning, rear axle stiffness, rear hub length, etc..."
An 'arrive and drive kart' is typically built something like a battleship....big, stiff, heavy, rugged....designed to survive abuse. As such, it really doesn't want to bend/flex/lift the inside rear tire....so rather than turn, you end up sliding/understeering/scrubbing off speed.

butzip

I have to admit, I was really trying to break into the 37s. Maybe I was trying too hard. The key is to be smooth, don't slide, controlled (quiet hands) steering input. It's so easy to overdrive these things and they have no torque to recover.

Cooley - Unfortunately, I can't blame wgt as an advantage. He was my size/wgt give or take a couple lbs.

I drove a 'Track Magic' 125cc shifter kart in the past, see www.btkmotorsports.com. These are serious machines, the likes of which can not be matched by anything short of an F1/indy car IMO. 20 minutes in one of these and it feels like Mike Tyson went 10 rounds on your ribs!! Accel and handling is brutally quick. By far the most bang for the buck. If they build a facility to support these near by, I'm there!!

Brgds, Peter

TD in DC

This is 100% true and why karting skills transfer to the track. Learning the car control skills, including the feeling for the limit, necessary to keep the kart right at the optimum slip angle without overdriving it -- which is very easy to do and ooohhh soo much fun -- is a valuable skill.

I used to kart when I was younger, if you can call the rinky dink track and karts we had access to "karting." Unfortunately, we were not very serious about it, alcohol was usually involved, and some of us had been known to sneak along baby powder to deposit at strategic points of the track.

mrbill_fl

does a kart's (rear) live axle relate to a locked rear end in a car?

I've driven locked and LSD's, and it seems like the karts behave similarly to the welded rear end. (where you tend to throw the kart/car more in slow speed turns)

not sure any p-cars have welded gears.

do 944 racers weld their rear ends?

TD in DC

My minor point was about balance. Regardless the technology of the car, understeer is understeer and oversteer is oversteer. The ability to sense and manage weight transfer should transfer from karting to the track, regardless of whether the specific techniques used to rotate the car differ.