When is it time to upgrade tires?
11-13-2006, 04:41 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
When is it time to upgrade tires?
Alright, I'm pulling a TD here. I have a friend that tracks his subaru a fair amount and i was talking to him about events next year. He said hes looking to get a set of R-compound tires after his street tires wear out (The OE Bridgestone RE070's in 225/45/17). The RE070's are AMAZING tires on track (not so much in the rain though 
) and i used them for a long time as my track tires.
His car is also VERY modded, coilovers, camber plates, etc. If its on the after market for subaru suspension, its on his car. I've never driven the car, but i can only imagine how that car handles now. Now, he thinks that his street tires are the "limiting factor" of his setup, and complains that after 5 hard laps they are a little greasy. However, he is only in nasa's HPDE 1 (i think he will be in 2 next year) and getting 5 hard laps in that hpde group is nearly impossible.
I've recommended to him that he try and buy another set of 70's (take offs usually run $300 or so for tires with 95% of their life left) because they are cheaper and I don't think he is ready for R-comps. I think in hpde1/2 you can still learn a LOT with street tires.
However, thats my opinion, and I would like your opinions. What would us suggest to him?
) and i used them for a long time as my track tires. His car is also VERY modded, coilovers, camber plates, etc. If its on the after market for subaru suspension, its on his car. I've never driven the car, but i can only imagine how that car handles now. Now, he thinks that his street tires are the "limiting factor" of his setup, and complains that after 5 hard laps they are a little greasy. However, he is only in nasa's HPDE 1 (i think he will be in 2 next year) and getting 5 hard laps in that hpde group is nearly impossible.
I've recommended to him that he try and buy another set of 70's (take offs usually run $300 or so for tires with 95% of their life left) because they are cheaper and I don't think he is ready for R-comps. I think in hpde1/2 you can still learn a LOT with street tires.
However, thats my opinion, and I would like your opinions. What would us suggest to him?
11-13-2006, 04:43 PM
#2
Race Director
Don't think about R-tires till you get to HPDE3 level. Over heating Street tires in HPDE 1 is probably a result of over driving the car. By the time he gets to HPDE3 he will understand that.
11-13-2006, 04:48 PM
#3
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I agree...why even look at R compounds while in HPDE 1/2? I also run with NASA, and when I first started and was in group 1 and 2, I couldn't come close to maximizing the grip in my street tires. He should wait until group 3 to make that move, imo.
11-13-2006, 04:57 PM
#4
Coming from a green group driver i have to agree about the comment on him overdriving the tire's. At LRP on Saturday, I had the same problem with overheating the tires earlier in the day, but as i got smoother and faster i never had a problem with tire temps. I am not going to switch to R compounds till i get to the point that i have maxed out the street tires, so i would tell him to look at what cars with similar mods are doing time wise, and see how close he is before he upgrades to r comps.
11-13-2006, 05:31 PM
#6
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i think it'll be tough for him to learn much of anything in a hi-po car that masks driver's mistakes w/ several differentials at work, no matter what tires he uses. the ra1's won't be any better in the rain either and if it's his daily driver that may not be the right time of the year for them.
11-13-2006, 05:41 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
I'm surprised that with all that modding, he hasn't moved to Hoosiers. I sure would have. If he can't get 5 hard laps in HPDE 1, he's not a very good driver I guess.
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11-13-2006, 05:47 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by VaSteve
I'm surprised that with all that modding, he hasn't moved to Hoosiers. I sure would have. If he can't get 5 hard laps in HPDE 1, he's not a very good driver I guess.
11-13-2006, 06:52 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
One other thing: having all the go-fast hardware does not mean the car is set up well. The set-up and alignment may be beating the **** out of the tires even at moderate speeds.
My suggestion: he should learn to drive first, then learn about setting up his car, THEN focus on tires, and then change his set up to accommodate the stickier tires.
My suggestion: he should learn to drive first, then learn about setting up his car, THEN focus on tires, and then change his set up to accommodate the stickier tires.
11-13-2006, 07:45 PM
#10
Originally Posted by spazegun2213
Alright, I'm pulling a TD here. I have a friend that tracks his subaru a fair amount and i was talking to him about events next year. He said hes looking to get a set of R-compound tires after his street tires wear out (The OE Bridgestone RE070's in 225/45/17). The RE070's are AMAZING tires on track (not so much in the rain though ) and i used them for a long time as my track tires.
His car is also VERY modded, coilovers, camber plates, etc. If its on the after market for subaru suspension, its on his car. I've never driven the car, but i can only imagine how that car handles now. Now, he thinks that his street tires are the "limiting factor" of his setup, and complains that after 5 hard laps they are a little greasy. However, he is only in nasa's HPDE 1 (i think he will be in 2 next year) and getting 5 hard laps in that hpde group is nearly impossible.
I've recommended to him that he try and buy another set of 70's (take offs usually run $300 or so for tires with 95% of their life left) because they are cheaper and I don't think he is ready for R-comps. I think in hpde1/2 you can still learn a LOT with street tires.
However, thats my opinion, and I would like your opinions. What would us suggest to him?
) and i used them for a long time as my track tires. His car is also VERY modded, coilovers, camber plates, etc. If its on the after market for subaru suspension, its on his car. I've never driven the car, but i can only imagine how that car handles now. Now, he thinks that his street tires are the "limiting factor" of his setup, and complains that after 5 hard laps they are a little greasy. However, he is only in nasa's HPDE 1 (i think he will be in 2 next year) and getting 5 hard laps in that hpde group is nearly impossible.
I've recommended to him that he try and buy another set of 70's (take offs usually run $300 or so for tires with 95% of their life left) because they are cheaper and I don't think he is ready for R-comps. I think in hpde1/2 you can still learn a LOT with street tires.
However, thats my opinion, and I would like your opinions. What would us suggest to him?
A. What does this post have to do with TD?
B. RE070s are NOT track tires, with the amount of modification aready done to the Subi, it'd be hard to justify running it on street tires.
C. You can "learn" on any car, having street tires just makes the process easier.
D. Just in case you missed A......What does this post have to do with TD?
My understanding is that your friend is planning on going with RA-1s or something similar, and not all out Goodyear slicks. RA1s with full tread still give plenty of feedback.
PS.
In response to your last question as to what you should suggest to your friend?
My $.02
Tell him he's doing great on the track and yes, better tires will make the car faster.
He'll appreciate a compliment and will likely improve soley thanks to your positive attitude....
Suggesting that he's "not ready" for track tires, due to lack of experience, poor skills, etc, will likely only make one of you feel better...and chances are it's not going to be him
Last edited by Eli K; 11-15-2006 at 02:54 PM.
11-15-2006, 02:47 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
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Originally Posted by Z-man
Once the evil needle of DE is plunged into a driver's vein, and the addiction sets in, one of two possible paths are assured for this individual:
Driver #1. The driver focuses on learning how to drive. His desire is primarily to get all techniques under his belt - the line, threshold braking, heel-and-toe dowshifting...etc. An amazing by-product for this driver is the simple fact that he will become a faster driver regardless of what equipment he's running with.
Driver #2: This driver focuses on going faster. He understands that the techniques that Driver #1 is learning will make him faster, but he's impatient, and sees other items that will make him faster at a more accelerated pace: R-compounds, bigger suspension, perhaps even a more track-suited car. Will this driver be faster with all his upgrades? Well, the CAR will turn faster lap times, but without focusing on HIS OWN skill set, Driver #2 will not improve as quickly as Driver #1 - his car and tires will greatly mask his own inability.
Driver #1 is content to learn how to drive given his car, his tires...etc. Driver #2 will insist on upgrading the car before the driver.
And some day, Driver #2 will be caught off guard when Driver #1 passes him with little or no effort. In a stock car, and on street tires.
Who's the fastest in the end?
-Z-man.
PS: I didn't switch to R-compounds until I progressed into the White (solo) run group.
Driver #1. The driver focuses on learning how to drive. His desire is primarily to get all techniques under his belt - the line, threshold braking, heel-and-toe dowshifting...etc. An amazing by-product for this driver is the simple fact that he will become a faster driver regardless of what equipment he's running with.
Driver #2: This driver focuses on going faster. He understands that the techniques that Driver #1 is learning will make him faster, but he's impatient, and sees other items that will make him faster at a more accelerated pace: R-compounds, bigger suspension, perhaps even a more track-suited car. Will this driver be faster with all his upgrades? Well, the CAR will turn faster lap times, but without focusing on HIS OWN skill set, Driver #2 will not improve as quickly as Driver #1 - his car and tires will greatly mask his own inability.
Driver #1 is content to learn how to drive given his car, his tires...etc. Driver #2 will insist on upgrading the car before the driver.
And some day, Driver #2 will be caught off guard when Driver #1 passes him with little or no effort. In a stock car, and on street tires.
Who's the fastest in the end?
-Z-man.
PS: I didn't switch to R-compounds until I progressed into the White (solo) run group.
11-16-2006, 08:25 AM
#12
Drifting
The hard part about going to R-comps is that they can get to the limit better, but the line is thinner at the limit and can easily not be noticed by a driver not fully in tune with the car he rolling.
11-16-2006, 08:42 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks guys for the responses! I'm going to start comming here with ALL my questions, lol.
As much as i would love to do this to my Subaru, I foresee it staying on 70's (or the like) until I 1) get some camber in the car (-.7 is not enough) and 2) i start seriously start competing in TT's with it.
I'm going to talk to him about tires later this winter, and I hope i can convince him to buy some street tires. but to each their own.
As much as i would love to do this to my Subaru, I foresee it staying on 70's (or the like) until I 1) get some camber in the car (-.7 is not enough) and 2) i start seriously start competing in TT's with it.
I'm going to talk to him about tires later this winter, and I hope i can convince him to buy some street tires. but to each their own.
11-16-2006, 09:47 AM
#14
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Tell him to throw some full tread RA-1s on there. They will feel so awful out of the box it might just scare him back onto street tires for a while. 
What are they saying on NASIOC? lol
What are they saying on NASIOC? lol
