I am getting ready to buy harnesses for my DE car. I have been looking around and it seems there are a few different types. Camlock, latch-link, pull up pull down, etc. Does anyone have any recomendations? Ive ridden in cars with the latch style harnesses, and they seem to be a bit more complicated in putting on. Are there any other differences? I know that pull up/down is a preference thing, but does anyone have any reason to go one way or another? I just got off the phone with my local race shop and they tole me that they could give me a deal on some expired harnesses. Im not racing so is there any concern with using expired belts? They have been stored in the box inthe warehouse so I don think that there is any wear because of UV, are there any other concerns? Thanks in advance!!!

 

If I had to do it again, I would get a set that I could pull down for the shoulder belts and pull up for the lap belt. Much easier that way for the lap belt, IMHO. I like the camlock system. I would no use expired belts.

 

Ditto ! This is my set up that I bought last winter and I'm happy with the way things work.

Some PCA events are now inspecting the dates on belts etc so I would not waste my $ on expired equipment

 

If the deal is good enough, the web, if not subjected to UV or significant humidity will function just as well after 5 years as day one.

We pull test web up to 10 years old and it will pull right to the same limit

Of course that will do you no good if they inspect at a DE and don't let you run...

 

I have not run a PCA DE yet, I typically go to Audi Club events and they dont care about the dates as long as there is no visible damage to the belts. I do plan on running with PCA Next year. Does PCA require cars to satisfy club racing regs? As far as the lap belt, Im guessing that a pull down lap belt requires you to pull to the outside of your body to tighten? That seems a bit more difficult than puling towards the inside so Ill look into that. Thanks again!!

 

As a side note, if they are inspecting belt dates do they inspect helmet, seat and fire extinguisher dates? If so, make sure that those items are current also.

Bro

 

Seats are ultrashield so they dont have dates, no extinguisher yet, and my helmet is SA2000 (bought about 2 days before the 2005 came out but the old one cracked, I had a track day and couldnt wait. )

 

If the discount is good enough, it might pay for re-webbing

 

check out teamtech.com, custom made belts. If you are using your stock seat make sure you get a belt that has a sterum strap. I had custom belts in custom colors in 1 week. They use a version of cam lock that is their own. Works nicely.

 

I have been very happy with my Schroth Titanium Hybrid II 6 points. Incredibly comfortable doesn't begin to describe the Hybrid sub belts. Same harness is available with steel hardware as well.
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/ximg/th...I_Titanium.jpg

The perfect blend of safety and comfort, the Hybrid II Titanium offers the best of all worlds. It offers a 2" lap belt with Ultra-low friction Aircraft adjusters, Hybrid style sub straps, and 3" shoulders. It also features hardware made of titanium for the lightest harness on the market. The latches for the shoulderbelts and ultra lightweight latches for the lap belts.

The main premise behind the 2" lap belt is one of added safety. A 2" belt rides within the crest of the human pelvis where a 3" belt would rest on the edges. This allows you to get the belt up to an inch and a half tighter. That means the lap belt will be working earlier in the accident event because it gets loaded faster. It's also more comfortable.

In the Hybrid belts, the 2" lap belt is configured as a Pull-Up, giving you the best leverage to tighten the belts. And because there is less friction in a 2" belt, it's easier to adjust in the first place.

The Titanium version features an ultra-lightweight snap-in connector sewn into the lap belts. It is only available on this harness and on custom spec harnesses costing hundreds more.

The Hybrid style sub strap setup is a new technological breakthrough from Schroth. Each sub strap has a loop sewn in the end which wraps around the hardware for the lap belts. The lap belts then click into the cam lock and provide for a more efficient and comfortable transfer of energy to the cam lock.

Cold Hard Facts:

* 6 Point
* 3" shoulders with Snap In attachments that are wrapped in (can be wrapped to bar)
* 2" Pull Up Lap with Snap In Laps
* RFR Rotary Cam Lock
* Hybrid Style sub straps - wrapped-in Snap In brackets


Here are some links to some useful harness info as well:
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/Co...structions.pdf
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/Hy...structions.pdf

 

Wrong. Not about TeamTech, I have their belts. Do not get race harnesses if you have stock seats. Period.

Bro

 

What he said...... It can be expensive replacing your seats, but what is your life worth. The right equipment working with the right equipment. Nuf said...

 

Hey;

- Find someone locally that REALLY knows about how to do this stuff. I mean REALLY knows. Most people DON'T, and it aint a no-brainer. EDIT - There is even a lot of misinformation in this thread!! STUDY CAREFULLY. This is a VERY complex topic. There is a lot of good info in the archive on this, and it will behoove you to spend the time.

- If you are using stock seats, be prepared because some regions won't allow stock seats with harnesses. If your's does, get H-strap shoulders. It's the best you can do. DO NOT get the sternum strap variety if you value your neck!!!

- PCA is 10 years on belts for DE. If the storage was good, I wouldn't worry. Look at the box, and if it looks like its been subjected to humidity or wear, pass. You can get a perfectly decent set of latch & link harnesses for under $100. What's the point if they aint clean and cheap?

- Latch & Link work just fine, and are arguably more reliable than plug & play belts. You don't have to wonder whether they are latched, but it is very easy to not get a snap-in snapped. It's also pretty easy to flip some brands open by accident!

- Pull downs work. Pull up laps can be an advantage, as you can pull up harder than down. But usually only if the mount point pulls close to parallel with the seat. If there is much of an angle outward from the seat to the mount, they sometimes do not pull easily at all, getting no tighter than a pull down. Eye bolts with clip in mounts help move them inboard.

- I can second Lew's love of his Schroth Hybrids. Pretty pricey, even in steel, but they sure work nice!

 

J,

I am going through the same thing as you. I have to get harnesses since the 3-point belts are no longer keeping me settled when running track events with the race tires and upgraded brakes. I have discovered there are some compromises. One thing I will never do is buy a used harness.

First, you will need 2 harnesses of equal type. There is a rule that both the driver and passenger must have equal restraints. So if you go with a 5-point for the driver, you must have the same the passenger. This is in the standard national DE rules guidline, so expect it as a requirement where ever you go.

Second, you are going to most likely need a roll bar or harness bar to mount them. This is because of the requirement of the angle of the shoulder straps must be mounted. For 911-993's there are easy options that don't have any compromises. For 996-997, there are compromises if you want to run a harness bar. The Brey Krause will only work on non-Bose cars since it mounts to the upper rear strut towers or kiss your sub goodbye. Fortunately, there is another option. Sparco makes a bolt-in harness bar that doesn't have this problem. It mounts to the upper and lower seat belt mounts. Stay away from the Welmeister bars, they restrict seat movement too much.

Next, no one makes a sub strap mount for the factory power and manual seats. If you have GT3 race seats, no problem. In that case Porsche and Brey Krause have bars. Due to the way sub straps are supposed to be installed, you can't install them correctly on the OEM seats. Fortunately, the local PCA chapters don't require anti-sub straps DE (minimum 5-point for club racing); so a 4-point is fine providing the belt is mounted properly low.

For the lap belt, Brey Krause makes bolt-in snap mounts for the stock seats. Even a 4-point harness is better protection than the OEM 3-point if you get into trouble. At the last DE, we had a car flip. The instructor used his hands against the roof to brace himself as the car was rolling because he was falling out of the seat. Fortunately, he didn't break anything when the roof started coming in but a 4-point harness on harness bar would have been a better option.

I have used a 4-point Willans harness back when I had my Miata. It was a nice inexpensive compromise. It was only 2", but had a wider pad for the lap belt. This is the most basic type of harness you can look at. Momo, Sabelt, Willans, Schroth and Sparco all make similar 4-point belts with automotive type press latches that carry the correct certifications. These are significantly better than using a race-type latch belt for getting in and out, but aren't the best protection if you get into a really bad incident. Beyond this, I would skip latch-type race belts and go straight to a 3" cam-lock. This is the way I am going.

Looking at all the manufacturers out there, I will probably go with Crow Enterprises. Crow has SFI-16 belts that are available very reasonably as individual pieces. All are pull-down, but you can choose the type of lap belt, sub strap(s) and shoulder harness. In my case, I am looking at a 3" cam-lock snap in belt with a 3" wrap-around shoulder harness. These will run about $140 a side versus Willans, Sparco or Simpson race harnesses that run about twice that. The other nice this about going this way is I could always get a 1-2 point sub-strap if someone comes out with a sub mount or if I swap seats for $10-15 ea.

 

I agree with most of the above, especially Bruinbro. It's not a good idea to use harnesses without proper seats. Remember, you're trying to improve your safety and using a stock seat is contrary to this. If you're going this route, take the time and do it right the first time.

another factor to consider is getting harnesses that will work with a HANS or other head & neck restraint. I currently use teamtech belts with the sternum strap. The belts are the pull up lap/pull down shoulder and have the rotary style connection.


Steve