mitch236

I have been asked to help organize PBOC's effort to begin an "extreme DE". They want to have a group that would allow for open passing, without a point-by in DE. They would require minimum safety equipment and a "license". The thought is this group would brige the gap between DE and racing. No timing is allowed and even though there is open passing, it would be understood that the car to be overtaken should yield the position and not try to hold off the overtaking car.

What do you guys think?

Can you give any suggestions to help us keep this safe and fun?

Thanks

Geoffrey

I like the idea however, something probably needs to be done to bridge the gap between normal DEs where passing in corners never occurs (even with a point by) and open passing in a corner. Some education would probably be a good thing. I can see nothing wrong with open passing in straights, most people can make the transition easiy enough.

Flying Finn

I'm for it and think it's a good idea.

I think it should work if all the drivers in that group are "cool" and up for it (those who keep their eye on the mirrors, know that slower car on straights can be faster etc.).
Even now every now and then I'm already passing before the point by (I know I'm gettin git and do get it but I already accelerate and am almost side by side when I get the point by).

What is a "licence"?

Would this allow passing only on straights or also on corners?

mitch236

We plan on beginning it as a group that is by invitation only. Then there would be some sort of education process where a "license" would be given upon sucessful completion.

mitch236

There would be opn passing. That would mean anywhere.

The license, as I understand it, would be a PBOC provisional racing license.

TD in DC

I think it is an interesting idea. I think you will really need to set some very clear guidelines regarding overtaking. It is ambiguity that causes problems. When I look at the typical DE, there are really two groups of drivers: (1) those who would be fine regardless of the passing rules applicable provided that the rules are clear; and (2) those who simply lack awareness even under the point-by scenario such that passing in the corners would be disasterous. I mean, I can see someone in the latter group coming down into another car passing on the inside because they are not aware enough to turn and watch at the same time. Sorting out the two groups of drivers would be the hard part.

Bull

TracQuest, now Chin Motorsports in the eastern Region, has done this for some years. The events where I have attended and Instructed run three groups, Slow (point by required to pass), Medium (point by required for passing in corners, open passing on straights), and Fast/Instructor (open passing anywhere). I have not seen any problems there.

Geoffrey

While TracQuest has open passing it is not as free as you might think. First, if you have an X on your car, your car cannot be "open passed" and second, they don't so much like open passing in corners. I've been brought in and talked to about passing others on the outside of corners at WGI. They really prefer if you do your open passing only on the straights.

Erik

Mitch,

You know I would love to be able to pass without signals, but what concerns me the most is that we are creating ANOTHER group, and lately there already seem to be too many groups w PBOC (2 student groups, a solo group, an instructor group and the racegroup) and the track time already seems too limited with only 3 sessions a day of 30 minutes each, which always get cut short somewhere during the day because of an accident or blown motor that puts oil all over the track. This is why I'm enjoying Goldcoast PCA so much lately since they only have 1 student group, and put solo and instructor together. A lot more tracktime !!!. Now if they are going to make the instructor group "open passing" and let the instructors that don't want to drive in the "open passing" group drive in the solo group, I'm all for it. I've done the open passing with Chin, and it seems to work fine, most of the cars being passed still put their arms out of the window as soon as you catch them, since they don't like to be passed in the turns :-)

Erik

mitch236

Erik, PBOC would do away with the instructor's group. At most events, they are combining the student groups so there would be plenty of track time.

We (the group of participants charged with setting this up) were hoping you would get involved as well, your name came up right from the start.

Gary R.

This may be a dumb question, but what does PBOC stand for? I criuised the site and while it's pretty well set up I can't find that one little piece of info... As I plan on living in FL in the next couple of years (at least during the winter here in CT) I would be very interested in this club!

mitch236

"Porsche, BMW Owner's Club"

And welcome. We have alot of great clubs with multiple events every month

mrbill_fl

Sounds good!

I'd just add, IF a 'licensed driver' gets a complaint or two (from other drivers) they should get put on probation or put back in 'point to pass group', for 'X' number of sessions or days...

-I'd NOT like to see divebombing, or chopping, like in a race, where the overtaking car must brake hard to avoid contact, But I have No problem with High HP cars passing in turns, like a faster class car passing a slower classed car.

with proper attitudes it should be fine.

-maybe add some saftey equipt like 5 or 6 pt harness, and fire suits, due to increased risks?

VERBOTN

Mitch
Wonderful idea, although I am not in the crisp air (yet)...... it would be great for many participants. If you need help/support in Orlando let me know.

Gary R.

Thanks Mitch, this sounds like a great idea to me.