Bull

I was reporting from my experience, not "thinking". Never had that problem under TracQuest when Todd was running the events. We were often told that a "signal would be nice, but not required". I and my friends were never "talked to" to my knowledge. I guess chin is reluctantly "continuing the TracQuest format" at the previous TQ events, while working to move people away from that format.

RSchoeni

Mitch,
I'm a recently signed-off PBOC solo driver. BTW, Erik if you are the blue GT3 driver, I was your student at Sebring last month...thanks again for the ride-along!!!).

The open passing group sounds fine. I'd like to see one DE group (combining Novice-Advanced students each with an Instructor), an Intermediate Solo group (combining Instructor group and solo drivers who need seat time, don't wish to play hard, or whose cars don't meet the minimum safety criteria for the Advanced Solo group and finally the Race group. That should get us, four sessions, yes?
Bob Schoeni

Flying Finn

Thanks Mitch,

Got it now. I'm definitely for it, I think it's a great idea.
I've done SAFE (or was it Chin?) where it was pretty much "open pasing" and it worked very well. But like others said, everything depens on the drivers, even in instructor group I every now and then see people who don't point by.

In any case,

dave morris

Well .... hmmmm .... probably way OT, and not wanting to split hairs, but it has been my experience that it is a lot easier to find seat time in the Northeast than in Florida ... you won't find nearly as many events in the winter in Florida as you have access to in a comparable spring/summer/fall period in the northeast .... IMHO.

Erik

Mitch, sound good to me, most instructors out there are good enough to handle the open passing, and as long as it would not affect the driving time, I'm all for it. Of course with Petu out there, it is really irrelevant since he uses the entire track thru the corners and wouldn't leave any room to pass anyway :-)

Bob, yes it's me with the Blue GT3. I won't forget instructing in that Red 2 person Go Kart for a while

Gary R.

Well, it will be nice to be able to do both, and between PBOC and PCA I can't imagine there not plenty of track time... Here are the tracks I see as easily reachable from FL., but I may have missed some -
(from http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks...ourses.html#SE)

* Barber Motorsports Park Birmingham, AL
* Daytona International Speedway Daytona, FL
* Homestead Miami Speedway Homestead, FL
* Moroso Motorsports Park Jupiter, FL
* Road Atlanta Braselton, GA
* Roebling Road Bloomingdale, GA
* Sebring International Raceway Sebring, FL
* Virginia International Raceway Alton, VA

From here in CT I have -

* Lime Rock Park Lime Rock, CT
* New Hampshire International Speedway Loudon, NH
* Pocono International Raceway Long Pond, PA
* Summit Point Raceway Summit Point, WV
* Watkins Glen International Watkins Glen, NY

mitch236

Not that it is a great track, but you missed Moroso.

dave morris

Couldn't agree more. But ... as you're in the early stages of thinking about Florida ... please remember it is a BIG state ... if you're in south Florida it takes about 5+ hours to just get up to Jacksonville. And, while PBOC has events at Barber, I suspect your drive now to Mid-Ohio is shorter ... unless maybe you were to live in north Florida (which is nice, I'm sure). VIR is a good 12-13 hours from south Florida.... and I'm guessing you're closer than that now from Connecticut.

Another observation .... during the winter in Florida, some of the local tracks like Sebring have lots of teams testing etc and consequently I think it is somewhat hard for the local clubs to get as much tracktime as they'd like.

But, hey, it's all relative ... you can sure get a lot more seat time in Florida in January than you can in Connecticut. Just maybe not as much as you're used to.

Flying Finn

Hey now! Don't you remember I move over to the grass to make room for you to pass!

Gary R.

Points well taken Dave, I currently have a place on South Beach but plan on building/buying a couple hours north of there on the east coast. It will just be nice to be able to run year round, November to April here is usually not an option, and I got caught in a SNOW storm in Watkings Glen last year in October!

mitch236

This is what I meant to post
July 2006:
8-9 Sebring
15-16 Barber
29-30 Homestead and Sebring

Not too bad

techno99

Between PBOC, PCA, Chin and SafeMotorsports, you could run 10 of the next 14 weekends at Sebring alone. No lack of track time here.

mkd944

Chin Motorsports continues to offer the TracQuest passing format at venues (WGI, Mid-Ohio, Barber, and VIR) that were originally TQ events with no major changes as I understand it. I have been a chief driving instructor for Chin for the past 2 years but I have not yet participated in one of the TQ format events yet. However, Chin also recently instituted a Dual Group format which we plan to use for tracks under 2.5 miles in length. We used it at Homestead a couple of weeks ago and it worked very well. Two run groups are designated:
Group One includes entry-level novice drivers (instructor required), along with intermediate solo drivers (less than 15 solo events, or first visit to a track). Passing is permitted on straightaways only, with a point-by signal. NO PASSING without a signal, NO PASSING in turns.
Group Two includes advanced solo drivers, and instructors. Passing is permitted anywhere, with a point-by passing signal. NO PASSING without a signal.

We did have passing in turns without any incidents however the passing in turns is stll left to the discretion of the car that is being overtaken since that car must allow the pass to occur. Personally, while I like the idea of being able to pass anywhere with a point-by, I found that it is not really very easy / practical to give a point while in a heavy breaking zone before a turn or in the middle of a turn. I also found that most drivers were still doing their most of their passing on straights anyway.

Mike Dayton
Chin Motorsports CDI
'95 968 M030 Coupe
'91 944S2 Coupe

bruinbro

The only problem with "by invite only" is eventually a bozo will slip into the group and the bozos will multiply like cockroaches. The license idea is a much better idea if you have the resources to manage a license program. Setting the license criteria shouldn't be too difficult. I would also recommend that cage-roll bar/seats/harnesses/suits/head and neck restraints/fire extinguisher be mandatory. Might want to consider mandating in car video or setting up video cameras at all corners to help with disputes.

Bro

shiners780

I drove with a group last month at WGI that has a no-point-by necessary format. No passing in turns. A huge disparity of speeds/lap times. The passing without point-bys was a non-issue.

I think the key to this group's success is in the admittance of members. New drivers to the group must be referred in by at least two existing members. Lap times are less important than track awareness and being able to process traffic. It is understood that being the focus of complaints will send you packing.

During two days of open track, not once did I see any close calls or questionable moves. However, this group has been in existence for awhile, members have been hand chosen, and drivers have experience with eachother and trust eachother.

Choosing participants for a run group from scratch may not be so easy. Perhaps a referral system from a core group of qualified drivers would be a good way to begin? With the right participants, it really is a non-issue.

The biggest difference I noticed from a DE was in keeping track of cars after a pass. In DE, you pass someone, you know they will stay behind you until you signal them by. In the no-point-by format, that person you just passed can pass you. This is especially true in braking zones, where in DE you tend to concentrate on the upcoming turn, not on the car you just passed. In the no-point-by format, you need to concentrate on both the upcoming turn and the car behind/along side you. It was great fun, something a bit different from traditional DE's.