SundayDriver

There is an easy fix for that. Get out of those tin tops and into a real race car.

Seriously, every safety device has unintended consequences and we each have to decide which parts are most important to us. Personally, I like the real world data that comes with the HANS and do not have the exit concerns due to what I drive. I am more concerned about having a car end up on top of me (like at Cleveland this weekend) than fire exits because of that.

Greg Fishman

You might be, but I am not. Sticking with my HANS here and hoping I never find my self upside down with fuel running down my back. I am more concerned about a upright collision into a barrier or another car. I think the quick release on the HANS is a good idea nonetheless.

Z-man

True - it can get caught up on things as well. But it seems less likely, IMHO. since the R3 isn't a yoke-like device ala the HANS.
This is true - H&N devices allow drivers to live to get out of a car after an accident.
Will do. I've heard one should practise this in a dark area or with blindfolds on as well.

Nice.
Ouch! Can you elaborate? (Hmm - still feel the same way about those silly tin tops after that?)

SundayDriver

Tracy and Bourdais got tangled with Paul's car on top. I think it was on his rollbar then slipped down on his head, but I have not seen very good detail.

It doesn't a happen very often so I can remain in denail about the dangers of open top cars and choose to never let my wife see those particular videos.

Greg Fishman

"Tracy's car continued skyward and came down on top of Bourdais' car in the cockpit area. Tracy returned to the pits where his crew replaced the damaged nose and sent him back out.

Bourdais was taken to MetroHealth Centre, but later released.

"Maybe his tire hit me, but it was the bottom of his car that was on top of my head," said Bourdais."

onasled

.......

Geo

Just thought I'd quote this so this point does not go unnoticed. There is a QR for the HANS for those who are concerned about getting caught up in the window/window net. Therefore, this should not be a point of contention. For my own part, I don't have the QR for my HANS, but I will. I should have been smart and bought it when I was at HD getting my HANS.

Greg Fishman

I understand that but it is an option, not a standard feature.

TD in DC

From my perspective, the problem with making choices about safety devices has to do with the difficulty of sorting out (mis)perceptions about risks, and weighing those risks against practical considerations.

I may be mistaken, but my assumption is that the HANS, ISAAC and R3 should all do a good job in protection you during a crash. Some may perform better under certain scenarios, while others may do better in different scenarios. I don't have any hard facts in front of me to make those types of judgment calls. I do know that I am happy having some type of protection, in my case an ISAAC, over no protection.

And yes, I do worry a little bit about egress from my car under emergency circumstances. It is hard enough to get in and out of my car under normal circumstances. I imagine it will be 100 times more difficult under stress and/or when the geometry and/or orientation of the car has been altered. I cannot imagine anything more terrifying than surviving a crash only to be stuck in a burning car. Not my idea of fun.

SundayDriver

And that is where we all lack real data. Sure, they all pass a sled test, but that is not how each crash happens. You can not possibly test for every possible crash scenario so we do not know what is going to happen with differenct devices.

This is where I feel (opinion) that the HANS has all the other devices beat. There are hundreds of crashes and many, many miles of wear. There have been issues identified with the HANS, but does that mean that the other devices are better or simply that there has not been enough real world use to find their particular issues? It is a Catch-22 situation - if the other devices do not get the widespread use that HANS has under their belts, then they will not have the depth of real world experiences.

Geo

Sorry Greg, I didn't mean to create more confusion. I was just trying to emphasize your point that they are available. It's a common concern voiced by Isaac users re: HANS (egress from car). With the addition of this option it's no different from the Isaac re: egress.

38D

And the HANS is arguably easier, as you don't have to disconnect fro the helmet, though it makes it easier.

I don't think the quick disconnects do much (though I have them). I normally just disconnect from my helmet anchors, which is easy enough. The one reason I got the disconnects is in case a corner worker ever has to drag me out.

TD in DC

Explain to me how it is easier to get out of the HANS, please. With the ISAAC, all I do is tug gently on the rings, and the entire device is disconnected from my helmet, and I have no harness deal with. The only evidence that I had been wearing a H&N device at all is the two 1/4" diameter rings that are permanently attached to my helmet (glued in my case).

How do you get out of the HANS? Do you get out with the shoulder harness/device still on your body? do you have to "lift" that off of your body before you get out? I don't see how this could be easier than an ISAAC, but maybe I do not understand what the quick release does.

Again, I am not saying that ISAAC is better, I just do not see how the HANS could possibly be even easier than the ISAAC is to release.

Phokaioglaukos

There are special "press in and slide" attachments for the HANS straps to the helmet. These take very little time to install/remove, but they are a bit finicky in that the alignment of the slide has to be right. I could see that as an issue for a corner worker or a panicked driver. The quick disconnects for the HANS might be useful in that circumstance. I do see many drivers who leave the HANS connected to the helmet at all times. I do not connect my straps until I am on the grid (and no longer need to swivel my neck to see traffic in the pits) and then I disconnect the straps as I enter the pits after a session. In addition to allowing a wider field of vision while in the pits it also gives me lots of practice in connecting/disconnecting the straps. That cannot hurt if I ever have to remove it quickly after an impact.

The bigger impediment to driver egress through the window seems to me to be the helmet, and that cannot be removed so easily.

38D

With the HANS, I just undo my belts, and then I am free to go. I can completely be free of the device as Chris described. Could a HANS get caught on the edge of door frame when exiting. Sure. But an Isaac user could also forget to undo the "pins" and have a similar issue. My point is I think they are really about the same for ingress/egress as both have pros/cons.

With HANS, I like Sunday said, really like the fact that it is used by nearly every pro series. There are just far more of them out there getting "real" testing. While I really liked the Isaacs, I wanted a SFI 38.1 certified device (flaws with the spec or not).