BobbyC

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/co...608_466074.htm

1AS

This has been beaten pretty hard on the CGT board. Personally, as a long-time racer, I think the plaintiff should and will prevail. Nobody should die at a DE.
Either the flag man or the Ferrari driver screwed something up, so the club and driver have some exposure. The track configuration was bizarre with displaced retaining walls, so the track has exposure. And the CGT can be a tricky car. I think this will settle or result in a large award for the grieving (newly wed) widow. Remember, this wasn't a race, just track time. AS

TD in DC

For our purposes, the following snippet would seem to be the most relevant. For members of any driving club that relies upon waivers to protect themselves from potential liability, this claim should be an unpleasant but important reminder as to why it is important to follow your own rules. You can set the rules as you see fit, and require participants to sign waivers . . . but . . . for your [our] own protection, we need to make sure that those rules are acutally followed and enforced.

"[claim against the]Ferrari Owners Club and the flagman - Negligently operating the track day by sending the Ferrari onto the track at the wrong time, violating their own rules by allowing passengers in the cars, failing to disclose Keaton's dangerous driving propensities, and allowing the track day to occur without moving the concrete barriers back to where they belonged."

Rick964

This has been beaten to death but just reading it all makes me sick. I feel sorry for the losses of life here but what kind of person takes a car "with handling problems" onto a track at 145mph to "try to figure it out"? If they thought the car was defective then there must be a number of service/repair orders from when the car was taken to the dealer to correct these problems. SICK.

ltc

I am waiting for evidentiary disclosure of someone actually having held a gun to the CGT driver's head forcing him onto the track.

I'm sorry for the loss of life, but common sense does not seem to be applying in this situation and neither does the acceptance of personal responsibility for your actions.

BC

Yep.

SundayDriver

There are a lot of interesting aspects to this - I am sure they will all come out in the trial if it gets that far. I have seen a copy of the email from the owner/driver that was posted on Rennlist then later removed - he was expressing concern about the brakes, yet ran the event anyway. That could be a key point.

I ahve also heard (speculation becuase this is like third hand) that he was in the previous group and blew the flag twice to come in. Flagman was told the track was empty.

I find it amazing that one could claim that a driver should be trained before being allowed to have one of these supercars. A half day class ain't gonna do it. If that were to be a real requirement, then it should be 60 hours of training or more. Silly concept but that doesn't stop it from being part of a suit.

And how can you argue where a wall should be. Gee, if I hit it at a shallow angle, I want it as close as possible. If I am going to hit it at 90 degrees, the further away the better. F1 can not even decide on standards that they do not change each year based on what the "Guess" is best.

Kind of funny - along with DJ, I was the first person to give rides in a Radical at DE's. We went to an attorney and made passengers sign an additional waiver. It talked about higher g loads, the edgier nature of the car and how it can easily get away from the driver, how race cars have more mechanical failures, etc, etc. The passenger was adcknowledging the extra risks they were taking by getting into that car.

bowmanm98

If the plaintiffs win a large settlement, the insurace company is going to feel the brunt of the financial burden. Forcing the cost to insure such events to rise. Finally that cost will trickle down to us. North America is the only place on earth where such lawsuits have a chance at winning. It's very similar to the skiing/snowboarding situation.

SundayDriver

I think that it could be much worse. If a flagger is dragged in, then why would people want that job? If the club gets pulled in, then they will either get out of DE's or tighten the rules a lot.

But here is the biggie - why would the track want to bother with litigation around DE's? Most tracks (at least the big name ones) make all their money from 1-2 events. A place like CA Speedway could shut down to DE's and club racing and probably not even notice on the bottom line. We could easily be kicked off the big name tracks in a heartbeat.

1AS

Doesn't "personal responsibility" also rest with an errant flagman, overexhuberant driver, or even car designer? I think that 's the plaintiff's point. The unpopular side of this arguement is that the car exceeds the capabilites of the vast majority of its potential buyers. As controversial is the concept that as a driver, you don't accept the incompetence of others costing your life. Theoretically, there are supposed to be a few rules. I accept that if you blow it, that's your fault. But, when some idiot wrecks your life, maybe it's not all your fault.
I dropped down into vintage because it is more a 9/10ths sport. A track day should not include a fatal event. To me, if you die at a track day, somebody did something very wrong- and probably not the passenger. AS

X-Ray Sir

"failing to disclose Keaton's dangerous driving propensities"


This is the key bit, but they're blaming it on the club, and not on Keaton.

Alan C.

After all is said and done we get in our cars and go out onto public roads with drunks, drug users and people driving with far too little sleep. I think we should all sue the federal, state and local governments for putting all of us at risk.

Noel

I'm with Mark. I fear that this will make DEs prohibitively expensive or worse yet, the tracks will simply not allow DEs. Ironically, it will be the safer tracks that pull the DEs first, since those are the tracks that often have big Professional races and need the DE money the least. We will then be relegated to running at only the second tier tracks such as Nelson Ledges in NE Ohio.

1AS

People do receive damages from the drunk, his employer (if on the job), and the bar that "overserved" him. If your spouse was driving happily along the street and got creamed by a drunk teamster, you wuld likely sue as well. I was a witness in a case like that, and learned it is pretty standard.
The parents of the teen who allow liquor at underage parties, the doctor who overprescribes narcotics, the store owner with the slippery floor, the railroad with the stoned engineer are all legitimate sources of award when an innocent bystander gets caught in their poor judgement. In this case, one could say Cory wasn't "innocent"- but he was if the flagger was not competent, Ben non-compliant, the track configuration atypial, or the car defective in a fundamental or ideosyncratic way.

This may raise the costs of track time, which I too would regret. The real problem will be if the award is adverse to the estate of the driver, exceeds any coverage he might have, and wipes out the financial safety net of his kin. I think Cory was rich, so Mrs. ex-Cory probably doesn't need it, but won't turn it down. This could hurt others who weren't participants in any way. AS

BrianKeithSmith

Yeah, but when it does happen, I don't understand why the courts have to get involved. Accidents happen everyday, getting on a racetrack is a little dangerous in and of itself (if you're driving faster than normal Interstate speeds). If people don't understand that, they shouldn't be there. Heck, in reality, its pretty darn dangerous being a spectator at a race because you never know what's gonna fly over the wall. That's not the fault of the speedway. Its not the fault of the team's participating in the race. It's just part of it, if you can't accept it, stay away. Should things normally come flying over the wall, NO. But the precautions have been put in place to try to prevent it from happening, but it does happen from time to time... Same with DE's and races. The precautions have been put into place, but just because the precautionary measures have been taken, it doesn't mean that something bad can't happen.

My point is, when these 2 guys got in that car to go out on that track, if they didn't know that there is a possibility that something freak may happen that may harm or endanger their lives, then they were 2 guys who were just very lucky to be as rich as they were, because their common sense sure didn't get them there. (obviously that statement assumes they thought it wasn't that risky)

Noone forced either of these guys to put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation. Nobody stood there with a gun to their head and said "go out on the track and drive this car wide open". Nobody forced the passenger into the car, or at least if they did, they haven't come forward to say so.

Even if the flagman waved someone onto the track, there is still some responsibility by those on the track to think ahead and manage the situation (oncoming cars) - just like you do on the highway.

Bottom line, nobody made them get in the car, and anything can happen at any time (on or off the track), to take our lives away from us.

If you're mindset , or your family's mindset, is to sue when you are taking part in something that adds a level of danger to your existence, then do us all a favor and DON'T PARTICIPATE!

Hey here's a what if : WHAT IF, the guy that entered the track was fine, and suddenly had a heart attack and due to his reaction to that heart attack he placed his car in the path of the CGT. Are you gonna sue that guy/his family because he had a heart attack? I don't really see much of a difference, either way, it was an accident. A bad accident, nothing more. If you're rich already, why sue?

Once again, you have to take responsibility for your actions. (I'm sure someone is gonna say "Tell that to the flagman"... whatever...) If I decide to go onto the track, and I kill myself. I can't exactly complain to someone about it....
I did it to myself....

If sewing were exciting, we'd probably all be doing that instead of driving on the track, but the fact of matter is, sewing doesn't provide that thrill you get when you realize how scared you were going into a corner and how great you feel coming out of it... It's those types of thrills that keep us coming back to the track, but its also those kind of thrills that endanger our lives to some extent. It's part of it... Eventually someone gets hurt. Unfortunately. Just like driving on the street.

I hate the fact that our society has gotten to a point that we even have to discuss the fact that this situation is actually making it inside of a courtroom.

Had to vent. Sorry....

Brian