onasled

To run a sub belt down from the buckle, under each thigh, back "UP" to and through the lap belt slots is just not a good way to run the belts. you now have a lap belt pulling you down into the seat and a sub belt pulling you up. What kind of forces will you have in an impact?

I pulled my SCCA book and found that it does seem to suggest that the subs may be sat on and attached to the lap belts, but it is rather unclear to me just what they mean. There is just no way I would do such a thing myself.

By the way, those sparcos are for sale , though they are a complete setup for a Mini.
This is my set up now

RedlineMan

Hey;

Why would you do a V sub install like a cradle? Indeed. It is not the greatest setup. It is good at hip control, but only if worn very snug. If it is worn very snug, it will not be comfortable.

If you have a stock seat with no holes, it is the only way to get proper lap belt retention, and therefore hip control in the passive sense. If you make a cradle, you get direct hip control too. In that instance, I would much rather use a T sub for my cradle. It still must be worn quite snug, but at least that is snug to the groin on either side, not right smack in the middle of the family.

Direct hip control. When you hit something, anything below the lap belt is pulled forward by the legs. This causes downward rotation of the hips, and pulls the entire torso downward. If you have a cradle waiting, it stops this hip rotation, and the entire downward travel of the torso as well. The tighter the cradle, the quicker the take up. The quicker you stop this motion, the faster all the belts take up, which reduces energy buildup and increases safety.

It IS a recognized method and does work VERY well - much like a formula system in an layback open-wheeler - even though to do so makes it rather uncomfortable. No, I'd rather have race seats!

bruinbro

Any thought on cutting new holes or expanding the sub slot in my Evo2 seat?

Bro

Larry Herman

John, here are a few pictures of the Team Tech Jet Pilot harness that I bought. You can see where it has slings that wrap around both legs and control any forward hip motion. It also has a lumber support. It only needs a single sub belt, works with most racing shells and when adjusted properly has minimal "impact". It's also not too difficult to get into once you get used to it.

RedlineMan

Hey Larry;

I've seen the pics of that system for some time, but I've never been able to figure out how it controls anything but your clothes flying off. I can't see where it attaches to any anchor point to hold you. Not something that pictures can quite carry off, I imagine.

I'm guessing it feels similar to the Schroth Hybrid and Profi systems when you get them cinched down tight. They feel REALLY secure. I have not driven with mine yet, only tried them out in a customer race car. Mid O the 9-11th is the first trial... if I get the dang beast put together!

By the by... you'll see two of my customer 944Ts up at the Glen race, black one (#76) in F and Calahari (#505) in E.

RedlineMan

Hey;

I'm thinking it would not be a huge problem as long as you did not take too much material, and/or if the holes did not weaken the base substantially. If it was me, I'd probably fab an alloy plate with the new holes in it, covering the old one, and bond it over the area to strengthen it. Just as a fail-safe.

Capt. Carrera

..And yet if you tried it, you'd find you liked it. Quit being so defensive and try it! You'll find it works quite well.

Larry Herman

I couldn't picture it either, and I talked to the owner of Team Tech too, but it does work. The "leg harnesses" are anchored to both the lap belt buckle and to the sub belt assembly. You sit on the whole thing and then you pull the sub assembly onto your lap, and buckle the lap belts, which wrap the leg harnesses around you into the sub assembly quick release. You can do it faster than you can read this. It's a pretty cool system & if you're at the Glen, you'll see it.

onasled

Not being defensive, really... Just stating my opinion on this topic.
And no thanks, I think I'll just do it the safe way.

RedlineMan

Smart guy, eh?

If you use a formula or d-ring harness in an open wheel car, you have the same performance from roughly the same setup as the one in dispute here. Is it comfortable? No way! Is it safe? VERY.

In my opinion, it makes no sense at all to use a V sub because it does nothing but cause you discomfort until you hit something, at which point it will castrate you while keeping the rest of you safe. If you require a stock seat, then you can make a cradle, and it makes no sense to me not to get a belt brand that offers some form of split sub, either a T or a Schroth Hybrid.

Or put another way, by doing a cradle, you accomplish essentially the same result as a Schroth Hybrid, except it is far less comfortable.

bruinbro

So, is it better to use the 6-point as a cradle through the lap belt holes in the seat or put the subs through the slot in the seat, get a B-K cross bar and use the 6-point as a 5-point? Or whack holes in the seat for the subs?

Bro

RedlineMan

Hey;

The best setup is a split sub (Schroth Hybrid, the latch & link Simpson Platinum DSL, or a T-sub, in that order) at the proper angle, down through two holes, to the floor. If you seat does not allow for a double sub, mod it as long as you do not have to take too much material doing it.

If you need cockpit versatility, attach it to the seat. Still the same subs, at the proper angles, and not jeopardizing the seat or belt material with the way you mount it and run it through.

If you must retain the stock seat, go back the lap belt holes, same subs, but the sub must now be worn tight because they do not preload the lap belt downward as well when worn this way.

I don't see any use for a V sub at all, given the existance of the T. Not sure why they are even still available? A single sub works OK, but no nearly as well as a split sub, properly installed.

Phokaioglaukos

Not having anything like the experience of John, I have been quiet on this topic. Reading the Schroth web site caused me to order the Hybrid II Hans for me and Hybrid II for the passenger seat. Everyone who has been in the car on the track finds these belts to be very comfortable. Some so much that they plan to switch to them.

onasled

I'd like to thank all on this post as you really got me thinking. I'm in the process of building a race car and only so much can be in my head at a time. Anyway, I just called HMS and had them add a single sub strap to my already on order Hybrid II system. My seat has all the right openings for this 7 point setup.
Thanks....

bruinbro

Got my belts before the T sub was out. I am thinking of changing harnesses, but have to save up first.

Bro