kurt M

The nut in the right seat is the primary safety equipment. The best setup to work with is well trained, informed, enabled, dedicated instructors that want to teach and students that have the right goals and attitudes going in. Ongoing instructor training and good pre track preparation of students should be standard with all DE programs. Teaching in DE is more than something to do when you are not on track or to hook the run group slot you desire. As instructors we all need to look beyond driver training and at people training too. One thing I have yet to see mentioned is ongoing instructor training. How about an instructor classroom time at each event? First 1/2 iof classroom time is a training module and the second half is disection of real world events and instruction based issues with group feedback.

I have had good weekends instructing 0.0 student high HP cars and have had lumpy pants weekends in 0.0 low HP cars. The two humans and the communication and control maintenance by the instructor is KEY. It is not the cars it is the people.

BobbyC

Amen! I was wondering When someone from the instructor corps was going to highlight this single most important safety feature

Charlie944

Well said Kurt! I had my first DE here in early May and my instructor asked me my goals for the day (and I went in keeping a humble attitude, and knew I was not there to race). I told him I wanted to learn the line, improve my speed and get more familiar with my cars capabilities (which are greater than my own currently). While I do have a roll cage, race seats, 6pt harnesses, etc in my car I knew I did not want to put them to the test

I train multidues of newhires at my place of work (UPS... ) and the job (or driving tips/rules) stay the same for the most part but it is how the person reacts and interacts with their surroundings and 90% of it is attitude. I have fun with them but when I speak they know it is their turn to listen. It is their personalities and their mind you are training and communication is essential. Sometimes the vocab gets in the way too: trailbraking, apex, etc, so an understanding there is important.
One chacteristic or training step that my instructor used was while he was driving his car with me in it was forme to talk him around the track (turn in points, approx speed, braking zones) so he could test my info retention and help to reinforce it in my own mind.

I use the 7-steps to training at work and they are good to use anywhere especially on the track:
1.) Prepare to train -- have necessary supplies/tools, and get to know the person you are training and their car in this case.
2.) Explain to them -- your goals expectations, and what you are going to be showing them.
3.) Demonstrate to them -- most adults are hands-learners this illustrates your previous explanations.
4.) Have them explain it back to you --making sure they understand and processed your info correctly.
5.) Have them demostrate it back to you -- this would be in their car now, so they could tell you but can they show you? Nervousness can impare this some.
6.) Follow up -- important step to re-emphasize pointers review their progress even after they run Solo...most would appreciate this. I would and do!
7.) Feedback -- give + feedback with formative feedback with things they still need to work on. Have them write some comments in their PCA log book so it is there for reference at the next track day.

Also some Driving Habits: All Good Kids Like Milk
A -- Aim High in Steering: this promotes safe turn in/outs while looking through and around corners.
G -- Get the BIG Picture: this is being aware of your surroundings
K -- Keep your eyes moving: no tunnel vision, check your mirrors, and keep in mind who the faster cars are.
L -- Leave yourself an out: in case of an emergency and you need to pull off in the grass where is it safe to do so. No tailgating!
M -- Make sure you are seen and that you see others: make your signals clearly and that all functioning lights work on especially the one atop your head

In regards to the tire patch, I would tell my instructor and/or tech. I would keep a lower speed and if possible get a new tire in time.

I hope to be an Instructor one day. Sorry for the long rant...thought I would share.

Sanjeevan

That's what scares me the most, a green student walking in to a high speed event with 500+ hp car with a patched tire and willing to hit 150 mph,...is this indicative of an informed prudent student ?,...I think not. The least that was needed to be done was a limit on speed and a chat to make sure his mind is in the right place. Brian, your willingness to get in to a stranger's car to teach in it self is highly gracious, a risk I never may be able to accept, you don't have to be nice when you are put at risk.

Ephraim

On the topic of plugged tires and Sears: I was at an event last summer at NHIS and corded my fronts. I had another set of MPSC's in my trailer so that night I took them down to Sears in Concord, NH and they did a good job mounting them up and catching a valve stem that was leaking. [If you're at NHIS, even on a weekend, and need tires mounted these guys can handle even real low profile tires well]

While waiting I noticed another guy from the same event, I think in black run group or an instructor, leaving with a wheel/tire. I asked the service writer what he was getting since I was surprised thay had anything suitable for the track. It turns out he was getting his tire plugged! I said something to the service writer about that sounding pretty questionable and he showed me the specific disclaimer they wrote on the guys service order that that tire was no longer rated as a Z tire, etc, etc. I was surprised that an experienced track driver would run a plugged tire, clearly against tech rules, and do so in the face of a written disclaimer by Sears.

Martin S.

Restrict the gears they can use at certain points on the track. Force them to learn and then drive the line....

The real world, I won't instruct anymore unless I know the driving style of the student from a previous event. It is too damn dangerous as far as I am concerned, especially with 3 point belts and no roll bar, no window net...forget about it.

38D

That's what I normally do. Even a 500hp car doesn't pull that hard at 2000rpms in 6th .

kurt M

No, it is not. Other than he is at a DE and in a position to be taught he might have a skewed idea of what DE is. He might be there with poor idea of what DE is but with direction he can see that top speed is not the only key to being "fast". He is not likely to be a stone cold blockhead but only in need of direction. The new student should have or at least be exposed to good goals and methods. The organizing group and instructors has the information and are in the position to deliver it. I am a tech chair and almost never have the "You have to change your brake fluid before the event, it is 2 years old!" conversation with anyone that have been to an event or two but have it all the time with 0.0 students at their first Tech. They are not stupid just not informed yet. I could tell them that they are dangerous bumbasses for not knowing this simple fact or I can spend a moment or two and inform them how the fluid works and what happens to it with time regardless.

The idea of speed limits keeps popping up. What do you do with a mixed group of well equipped and high speed authorized cars whiffing past the noo-b and speed attenuated cars? Differential in speed is a danger in and of itself. An all around total speed limit? At what point will we have diluted the track experence into the High School parking lot?

Can we identify real problems as shown by real events and correct them without reacting on perceptions of danger? I am in no way saying that this threads topic is that in any way. This is a good conversation with good input. My question is meant to broach the subject of what is a real danger compared to what only feels scary or is a very low probability event. Life is limited by many things and you can not react and correct all possible dangers. Sometimes the actions taken to reduce one danger can in reality increase another more likely danger.
Can we go after the big or most likely things with thoughtful action and forsight? Danger and risk cannot be eliminated. The likelihood can only be reduced or the possible bad outcomes attenuated. That is reality.

Capt. Carrera

You ask if others would be comfortable with the patched tire. A properly patched street tire would not have concerned me. But then again, I wouldn't have a greenie hitting 150mph unless I felt they were really gifted.

But the real question should be what to do when you are not comfortable with your student or their car? The answer is to visit the Chief Instructor. They'll arrange the best deal possible for everyone. Usually this works out to a swap. For example, I take your student with the patched tire. You take my student with the harness, harness bar, and stock seats.

Sanjeevan

Kurt, I completely agree with you, I understand that the green students have to be taught the basics as you put it. I was in the same situation not too long ago, and I really appreciate all invoved for taking the time to teach me. (now that I have'nt hit the tracks in a year I still may need a remedial course myself )

My point was that the patched tire MAY NOT be the biggest problem in this situation, rather the only overt sign of someone who does'nt realize the importance of tech, safety etc. and as you say needing the proper guidance. Limiting the speed may not address the entire issue involved. I am in no way saying he should be punished or anything like that, rather may need more guidance than the issue of a patched tire.

Bob Rouleau

Brian - FWIW here is my (CI) view:

1) You at least knew that the tire had been patched. There is no way for the tech line guys to spot a repair.

2) Manufacturers seem to feel that a street tire with near full tread depth which has been properly patched is safe to use although it is no longer guaranteed to meet its original speed rating. Worn tires are another matter and R compounds are a no-no.

3) We limit greenies to 3rd gear 4000 RPM until such time as the instructor is confident that the driver can handle increased speeds. It is hard to teach a novice in a car going too fast.

4) Greenies should have a reasonable speed limit after we waive the 3rd/4000 RPM rule. 80 MPH is about right since nothing is learned blowing down the straight at 150 MPH in any case.

5) I have no hesitation getting in a car driven by a novice even if it has 600 HP. I had one for the last 3 days, a 996TT X 50 which had been tuned (fantastic job on the suspension brakes and engine). After reeling in his desire to mash the throttle, we both had a good time. In my book any acceleration is done progressively - no "flooring it" allowed - ever.

6) Knowing the tire was patched - I would have still instructed him but with a top speed limit.

7) If one of my instructors came to me with the problem, I would not be upset if he/she said "I do not want to teach in this car". Instructors are the ones who bear the risk and ultimately are the final judge of what, if any risks, they choose to take. If nobody is willing to ride in the car with a patched tire, the owner has some incentive to get a new one, or perhaps two new ones. I did a check ride with a guy that had replaced a rear tire which had been badly holed. He had 2 32nds more tread on the new tire (out of 10/32's). The car would pull to the left on acceleration and yaw the opposite was on release of the throttle - just what you want into a high speed sweeper. He went back for another new tire.

8) Our instructors are taught to carefully eyeball the car before getting in. Moreover, we drive the car (slowly) for the first two laps of the first session - ostensibly to show the novice the line, but the underlying reason is to assess the safety of the vehicle. Prevention is the best cure.


Best,

rs911t

Brian, I'm no instructor (merely your first student ), but I think the real question relates to the "GREEN student (never been on track AT ALL) with a modified 996 Twin Turbo (620 HP) on street tires". .