jsabatini

I agree.

mitch236

I think that since the student was "green" you had less chance of tire failure than pretty much anything else that can occur on the track with a novice.

Phokaioglaukos

Were you with him in the car at the time of the puncture? If not, did he report the puncture to you when it happened and before the repair was effected? The optimal "teaching moment" was when the incident occurred so that you, and maybe the tech people at the event, could have a conversation about the right thing to do. I'm guessing he did not have a trailer and he clearly did not have a full service, spare tire/wheel, so he HAD to make a repair or replace decision not just to run on Sunday but also to get home.

Were I the driver (I'm not an instructor), I would have talked with you as my instructor and the head of tech to get advice. I would not be able to get Tire Rack tires to the track in time for a Sunday run--at best they would get there for a Monday repair when I should be at work. Depending on the time of day when the incident occurred, I would try to get two replacement tires from Sasco or someone else local.
A second choice would be to seek to borrow street tires/wheels from someone using track tires. I'm in my second year with a good club, so I might seek (and get!) a loan, but I think that unrealistic for a first timer whom no one knows. From his perspective, a patch was probably necessary to get home. For me, if I could not get two good tires on that axle, I would patch and drive home, slowly.

mitch236

Sorry, but this is a little extreme. There are alot of patched tires doing daily duty out on our roadways with no public outcry about their inherent danger. It is silly to spend so much money every time you get a nail.

930man

Brian , that guy came around asking me for a 305 tire for the car, i asked him what the problem was said he had a bad tire. black twin turbo with 600+ hp... i said what you need to do is go get a 1300.. set of dunlops from sasco they have them in stock cause i thought about a set for the GT3... my tires were shot on saturday...

he said he would, i told him you shouldnt be out there with the bad tire not safe for you the instructor or the other students.. period!!

there were several of us there you know the whole crowd i was with told him the exactg same thing!

did you get throttle spring fixed? great weekend other than that ... hate to see that guys GT3 Wadded

Phokaioglaukos

You are undoubtedly right. I work with someone who patched a tire, for street and highway duty. I do DEs on the same tires I drive on the street, though, and I would not be comfortable patching an RA-1.

BrianKeithSmith

930man:

Yep, A930Rocket helped me replace the 2 throttle springs (SprBxr too) and then I was off to Sears to get the tire mounted, and missed one session.

For the last session we talked them into extending it to 40 minutes! Had a BLAST! Only 8 of us on the track. Got 15 full laps plus the warm up and cool down laps.

Brian

930man

damn hate missed that!...tires were gone sears had no stick on weights when i got there sunday!

had another set of slicks and no weights!.. so called it after my last drift session!...

the GT3 is an incredible drift car so you know!

jsabatini

You bring up a good point. What is the official stance of PCA, BMW CCA, or other DE groups in regards to plugged tires? I have run many DE's on plugged tires. If a student asked me I would tell him that many people think it is a bad idea, but that I have had no problem running on plugged tires.

I will bring it up with the powers that be in the Suncoast Region at our next school in June.

Z-man

BrianKeithSmith: regarding your dilema - tough call - I suppose you could have told the chiefs you didn't feel safe in the car and they would have assigned someone else -- but that doesn't really solve it - just shifts the threat of danger onto someone else.

It is downright scary these days - a newbie driver can attend a DE event with a 996TT / GT2, and without knowning what he is doing run lap times similar to veteran drivers that run with Porsches from the 80's and 90's. And the driver aids like PSM still can't defy the laws of physics - however, it often gives a newbie driver a false sense of confidence. If he chooses to push beyond the point where PSM can help, he will be going off the track at a much greater speed than someone who pushes the envelope without such driver aids. Scary.

This is a new issue with DE / HPDE's these days - fast cars that 'self heal' the driver's mistakes in novice driver's hands. Like this thread and the EVO crash @ Pocono thread shows...

That said, not all 996TT and EVO drivers are super-aggressive and out of control. Hopefully more mature driving will occur as more of these folks take it to the track and learn that top speed and PSM isn't everything...

-Z.

RSRRacer

Brian:

I was supposed to make it in the Cup Car but Aaron was sick and thus I could not get the car to the track.

First of all, if the guy was running 305/30 rears (not OEM) then unless he also changed the front tire size I am suprised that he did not fry the front diff in the car.

That aside, no way would I ride in the car with a patch or plug. Someone from PCA should send him a letter to document this for his own saftey and others. He may well come back to the next event with the same tire.

Sorry i missed you all I was wanting to get to VIR in the cup car and shoot for a 1:58

BrianKeithSmith

Actually this car was a Red 2001 (I think) 996 TT. Just to be clear.

Thanks Chris!!! - good points.

Brian

BobbyC

Here's another perspective...yes, from a student with a high HP 996TT.

Safety first! And maybe I'm overly **** about it. Pre event I ensure that all safety equipment (Rollbar, race seats, 6-pt harnesses, fire extinguisher, helmet, etc are in good working order), check brake pads, brake fluid, tires, tire pressures, oil, coolant, etc. to ensure there are no mechanical weaknesses. If there's the slightest doubt about anything I won't drive on the track.

By the same token I'd ask the instructor corp to help educate the newbies...many of us are unaware of what may or may not pose a safety hazard. And one more thing, shed the stereotype bashing of high HP newbie drivers...get to know your students and you just may be pleasantly surprised.

And Brian, as for the plugged tire, you should absolutely not have to get into that car...I wouldn't run a plugged tire even on the street!

jsabatini

More info on plugged tires

Tire Rack Tire Tech

From the article:

I guess I will tell students that it is not recomended to drive on a track with a plugged tire and leave it at that.

VaSteve

I know this will be unpopular, but I agree with BobbyC. I am nowhere close to the High HP category, but some drivers who have these High HP cars have no choice in the matter. Maybe they always wanted "A Porsche", well in 2006, they have the money to afford one, and don't want to spend every weekend fixing an old (low HP) car. The Porsche of 2006 can do amazing things, that the Porsche of 1983 can't.

Or, perhaps they want to try the DE thing out and don't really know if they are going to like it. Should you turn them away because their car is "too good" for them?