BrianKeithSmith

Gang:

This weekend at VIR I had a GREEN student (never been on track AT ALL) with a modified 996 Twin Turbo (620 HP) on street tires.

On Saturday, he punctured a tire, went to Sears and had it patched/plugged.

My question is, would you feel comfortable getting back in that car knowing the tire was patched? I didn't really feel comfortable with it, but I rode with the guy on Sunday.

Now granted, anytime you have a student you never know whether or not the existing tires on the car have been patched, so you don't worry about what you don't know about. But in this case, I worried about it because I knew about it.

Any time you are going 150 down the straights in a car without a cage, knowing a tire is patched, kinda makes you worry....

Brian

GT3 Chuck

Geeeez Brian, Sears should never have patched a speed rated tire...I wouldn't track solo on a patched tire and it pisses me off that your student would subject you to that risk...IMO you should have told him to stick something else in that puncture

vegasgolf98

Patched, plugged tires, do NOT belong on the track. No way would I get in the car.

kary993

I am with you, even without the tire patch I would be worried about going that fast in a car without more safety equipment than three point belts and air bags!

The issue today is some many folks are buying these 380 to 600 HP cars without any real safety equipment in them. Look at the lawsuit with the guys that died in the Carrera GT, more of this sort of thing will happen since the drivers are not pros and the cars and getting very fast.

I would not have goen with him. I sent a guy home who did not have 5 points, he was using a three point system where he hooked the lap and sub belt to the lap mounts, no roll bar and a 400 HP car, new driver, my god it was an accident waiting to happen and it was not going to be me! Not worth it in my opinion.

onasled

Agree with above coments..
With this hobby comes responsibility, and that should have been his lesson for the weekend.

bobt993

If you really needed to keep him on the track , then you could have told him he would be limiting his speed, say 80mph down the front straight. At that speed he would still need to brake properly for 1-5 and be smooth up the essess ( green student). Back straight, same, still needs to navigate the roller coaster. Limiting the high horse power cars is the best control. Rewarding the student with some additional speed is the incentive for a solid track session. He would still past most cars with that type of acceleration if he could turn the car at all.

onasled

Question is, how did he get through tech? Tech guys are the ones that seem to have put you, the instructor, in danger.

APKhaos

No way. The discussion would have been something like, "Are you sure you want to risk your $100K + car on a $12 tire patch at 150MPH? Lets go up to Sasco and see if they have a tire for you. Keep the plugged tire for around town cruising."

944TURBOS

man I know what you feel when it is tough to tell a student that you do not want to run with them because you do not want to make them feel bad, but on the other hand your life is kind of in his hands and your situation is scary. I rode in a 575hp Mustang Cobra as an instructor and was absolutely scared half to death to get into that thing. Not only was it a mustang, it had all that hp, no suspension work, no cage, stock seats with harnesses, and a first time driver. What I did to make sure we had boundries straight was to at first keep him in one higher gear and restrict his straight speed to keep us both safe. There was no sense in me letting him hammer the car out of a turn and push it to crazy speeds and then take that 4000 pound boat down to a safe speed for a newbie to corner at. We had a couple scary moments but he listened very well and by the end of the weekend I had increased the "speed limit" and he thanked me for helping keep him in line.

As for the punctured tire, that can be scary. I have had so many days where I have had to quit the track weekend because of a small issue and although he is a first timer he needs to know that this stuff does at times put an end to track weekends. You were def in between a rock and hard place, but always put your life ahead of everything else. Glad you came out of the day without any incidents though

kary993

He had it tech'ed at his local shop (that installed the belts) and turned in the form from a certified shop for PCA. Never trust the driver or the tech process. Nothing personal, just my life at stake. Always inspect the car yourself before getting in to instruct!

944TURBOS

Listen to the man! obviously very wise

BrianKeithSmith

Thanks guys. I'm glad you look at it the same way I do.

I didn't want to do it, but was kinda forced into it in a way. I approached the appropriate people at the event, but they said they couldn't prevent him from running because of that (can't quite figure that out, like you guys said, isn't that what the tech line is for).

Anyway, next time I'm going to definitely take a stronger stand for myself.

Thanks,

Brian

bobt993

Just went through the national cert program this weekend. They expect us to look over the car alot more, tech at the track cannot catch alot of this stuff, just toooo many cars to grid tech. (The pre-spec should be stamped and a "receipt" if your really skeptical. My mentor stuffed gloves under the seat, typical hood latch loose, etc. Real scary stuff. I limited him to 3rd gear. period. Still managed an emergency track exit after blowing a high speed turn in the rain. 600 hp cars with green students is insane.

38D

You never have to get into car you consider unsafe.

Larry Herman

Attitude, and the willingness for the student to understand just how difficult to learn, and dangerous track driving can be would guide my decision. Last year I had a new student in a 750 HP single turbo Supra at Summit Point. He was a drag racer and very proud of his car. Took the time to tell me about it, how much he wanted to learn how to drive (not race) on the track, and also mentioned that he turned down the boost as low as it would go. Still made over 400 hp but he had the right attitude, and we mutually limited the full throttle blasts off the corner to about 4 or 5 seconds, and then cruised down the straights. He actually learned pretty fast, and we had an enjoyable weekend. Did have one moment when coming out of the pits and accelerating hard he shifted into 3rd and spun the tires.