I would like to understand some of the things people have done to their 3.2 Carreras to make them competitive in PCA F.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Tires - What is the widest rubber one can fit on a 3.2 Carrera? Is it 225/245? or is there more room?

2. Wheels - I think the 16" Fuchs are out. What size and offset will support the rubber above? I'm thinking of getting some custom offset wheels like CCW but I don't know the size or offset.

3. Brakes - Brakes are the weak-point on the car. What can be done to improve the braking? I've heard of a larger master cylinder and a backing plate in the front.

4. Exhaust - obviously the stock exhaust is not acceptable. What are the options? Which custom headers to go for and which mufflers?

5. Suspension - I guess a full overhaul here is necessary. Monoballs, camber plates, custom valved Bilsteins etc. 22/34 Torsion bars? Adjustable charlies or similar.

Any other mods that you guys think are worth while?

Thanks for the help.

Tristan

 

17" or 18" custom offset wheels will let you get 245 and 275 rubber under the wheels. Slight fender rolling will be necessary. The jury is out on the torsion bar setup; make sure you have a SYSTEM (IE custom valving to match). Best guy to talk to is Craig Watkins at SmartRacing or find the article that Van Overbeek wrote in Excellence a few years ago after testing SmartRacing wares on G stock car. Brakes are fine, run the cooling scoops and flush regularly. On a 3.2 I think 1 3/4" headers with open pipes will help the car on top end the best.

Have fun!

 

As Mitch stated, you need a suspension designed as a whole and not pieced together. I found three great sources for suspension information and expertise in building my SC.

RennSport Systems
http://www.rennsportsystems.com/

Smart Racing Products
http://www.smartracingproducts.com/default.htm

Elephant Racing
http://www.elephantracing.com/

Their views on how to set up a car will vary somewhat so I wouldn't go jumping from one to another. I went with Steve Weiner at RennSport. His suspension tuning ideas were more in line with what my mechanic recommends, which has made tuning the car that much easier.

Good luck with the car and the race season.

 

All the above are great.

Another key is weight. You must be at minimum to be compeititve. Get your cage in and two race seats. Weigh the car with no more than 1/2 a tank of gas and start removing ****.

Make sure you read the rules carefully. Here are some key items

- Wheels. Wheels can very quite a bit... forged are usually lighter than cast (and more expensive), but light wheels are a triple threat.... weight, unsprung weight and reciprocal mass.
- Front and rear bumpers to fiberglass... this is worth 70-80 lbs. Gt-Racing sells them.
- Electric antenna and stereo...
- A/C... this is a gray area. If it was optional for your car, you can remove it...(opinions?)
- Sound deadening. You must keep the interior look stock, but the stuff underneath can be removed
- Battery... a lightweight one is legal.

Then you can ballast the car with gas... A gallon of gas weighs about 7 lbs..... just make sure you know how much you use in a race and put that much in on top of your min-weight fill... you don't want to get DQ'd for using too much fuel.

 

put a 3.8 in it....no one will ever check anyway

So, have you found, bought or are you just considering a car?

 

3.2 carreras never had a A/C delete option... so if it runs as a 3.2 you need the equipment (less lines)... doesn't have to work.

 

Jeff,

No, I haven't bought one but trying to figure out my investment to bring one to race prep. I have found a decent candidate though.

Lefty

 

To turn a street car into a competitive F-Stock weill be roughly:

$2000 Roll Cage
$1200 Seats
$600 Net, Extinguisher and kill switch
$5000 Full suspension (Bars, Bushings, Sways, etc)
$1500 Exhaust
$1000 Fiberglass Bumbers
$2000 Misc
$2000 Wheels

Assuming you find a good car for $12000, your knocking on $30K for a no-frills top ten potential car..... plus you need to sort it all out.

You can buy a built car for $25ish, but usually get a couple extra wheels and stuff, and a "track record"...

 

Grigsby probably has 100k in his F class 968, plus he drives like a pro.

 

That's assuming that the engine and transmission are in good shape and don't need a rebuild.

 

Yes... this assumes a solid donor car... and bare-bones... the cage is probably going to be more like $3000

Cost goes vertical after that..... you can easliy dump $20-30K additional just in development and testing not to mention blueprinted motors, etc....

See above...

 

Another point is that the rules have changed, and 84/85 Carreras can run 98 lbs lighter at 2662 lbs. I think that is a huge advantage, as the brakes are marginal at 2760. Personally, I think that the best 911 for the class is a Euro SC. It can run even lighter at 2550, and you can set the mixture and timing because it is all mechanical. Exactly what you cannot legally do in a Motronic 3.2.

 

Gary R is running these on his '78 SC ...

CCW Racing (black centers) 18x8 and 18x9 on my 78 SC with Hoosier AS304 in 245/35 front and 275/35 rears.

We had to roll the fenders (the 'ol baseball bat trick) to prevent some minor rubbing.

 

Don't let us put a damper on your enthusiasm. It's usually cheaper to buy a race car that has had the hard and expensive work done. You can still get stuck with one that will require expensive rebuilds so do your research. Building a car from scratch is fun, frustrating, expensive and many more. The best thing you did was to set define the end point, a competitive car that falls within a specific race organization's class rules. The rest is backwards engineering or better yet copy the set ups of the top racers. Let us know on what you decide.

 

Eric is correct and a $12,000 donor car will definitely not have a fresh motor. Add a minimum of $8k there and more if the trans needs work or if the car doesn't already have LSD. (If it does have LSD, it will probably need rebuilding anyway). If you have to add a LSD, add at least another $2K.

The early (through '86) Carreras are now pretty good F cars at the lower weight.

It's almost a universal truth that it's always cheaper to buy than build! Nobody beleives it before they start building, but it's true.

There is an excellent car for sale in MN, owned by a shop owner who has spent a ton of time and money developing the car. He runs 16" Joungbloed wheels. It's probably (hopefully) a gearing thing, but he pulled me just a bit on practice starts last year at Brainerd (in my E class 944S2 Firehawk). I'm pretty sure he was running 2nd at Road America last year to a really fast E car before having some sort of trouble.

The so-called Euro SC's that can dominate F are running a configuration that Porsche never built. They are using a combination of pistons and intake (US and ROW). I'm hopeful that PCA will someday make these cars match something that Porsche actually built. I really don't want them moved to E, as they'll win there too!

Joe