Geoffrey

There is a lot of missinformation here.

Bigger valves and porting are easily spotted with a borescope through the injector port.

Cam lift can be found easily by a dial gauge on a valve, duration is a bit more difficult. Cam timing can be found in a similar method as well as the 'Z1' mark on a pully using a piston stop.

Colin,

To get 11.3:1 on the 964 you don't lengthen the rod by installing an offset bushing, this ruins your squish area and affects the deck clearance. There are other methods of doing so that are within the stock guidelines such as taking .020" of the heads. The factory spec says the head can have 2 cuts at .010" each. Other things such as cutting the cylinders and edge of the pistons are more questionable as far as the rules go.

Cheating or the perception of cheating in stock classes makes it frustrating for all participants.

JCP911S

Cheating in a series like PCA totally defeats the purpose of the thing.... which is to find out how you measure up against other drivers, and push yourself to improve.... but that is only one school of thought... there is nothing worse than worrying that your car doesn;t measure up....YUK

BTW.... thought of a good cheat...... lightweight clutch/flywheel.... virtually undetectable

DanG

Meet the cheater's newest friend...
http://www.microsquirt.info/


Thats a complete standalone EMS, but almost the size of a credit card! Think you could find a place to easily conceal that along the stock harness somewhere?

38D

Ah, got it. I knew there was a way to up it legally.

kurt M

...JE pistons are an easy find as are a lot of the above that are truly HP gainers. You don't even have to CR the motor with a whistler; just take a look-see with a bore scope. Cams are another good place to get power and or more RPM but again they are easy to check for in the paddock. Be sure to bring your extra valve cover gaskets! Early larger intake runners on later motors is another good one. The thing is that most of the cheater moves that will make a noticable diference can also be discovered during a proper inspection. Most everything involves cam timing, intake volume and pressure for you turbo boys and gals, fuel volume, cyl displacment and CR and thay are all easy to find. The chip end of testing is also easy to check for by as was said disable the stock brain and see what happens or hooking up a scanner to see if it even reads anymore.

Gentleman racing at it's best…

Larry Herman

Yep there is, and mine will be there. 11.3 compression, headers & a custom chip really wakes the 964 motor up. Will it be enough for Charlie though?

Kool

Would taking a old chassis say a 76 911 and putting a modern powerplant in it say a 84 or 85 SC motor in it be considered cheating?

Car is classed in the year of the motor but has the advantage of the lighter chassis? Cheating or being smart or neither?

38D

I dunno...will you be able to run 2:08s at the Glen? Last year he ran 2:09.1 on MPSCs (I also ran MPSCs). With Hoosier actually having 295s this year, we will both probably run them at some point, which I would guess is worth a little something.

analogmike

One of the cars I run against in PCA stock class has this, he can't get his car on the trailer without stalling. Sounds like my GT3 cup car. He uses the improved clutch pivot mechanism on it though, so you can easily see it under the car

Larry Herman

This car can run the 295s at the rear too. As far as 2:08s at the Glen, well thats why we line them up and race them. We'll know in about 4 months. I think that I can give Charlie his money's worth Summit Point though.

JCP911S

Thanks... good info

JCP911S

PCA has a 'post-date, back-date" rule which allows a car to be re-built to the specs of another model... however it must duplicate the target car "in all respects"

This is a pretty broad rule.... does this include ball joints and door handles?

For the most part as long as the main things.... engine, gearing, wheels, suspension geometry, brakes and minimum weight match, its gets by, but personally, if I had a post-date car that was consistently winning, I;d be a bit concerned about it.... alot of details can be wrong... its a risky rule IMHO

In this case, the weight must meet minimum... so no obvioius advantage over the model year car...

MJR911

Larry, your car should shine against the turbos at a track like LRP. Of course Cherry did well with it everywhere, didn't he?

Kool

Hey JCP

I was talking about a particular car that runs here in the SE. It is a consistent front runner but I do not know about the details as far as door handles and whatnot. To my knowledge the only parts that were updated was drivetrain.

At the end of the November race the car was called in to be weighed and he was 3 lbs over minimum. IIRC

It would seem to me that regardless of minimum weight for a class or car you as a competitor would much rather add balast to meet minimum weights then the opposite. At least when you add weight you can put it where you want it. Am i wrong?

Could you build a 944 turbo out or a 924 body? That would be huge difference in weight. might not be feasable but plausable. Yeah I know too much Mythbusters.

JackOlsen

My 1972 911 wasn't built for a PCA or POC class, so cheating is beside the point. But you wouldn't know that my front control arms were lengthened by 35mm unless you looked pretty carefully. We had to add positive camber to the struts in order to have a decent adjustability range (currently -2.2 degrees)

We also moved the entire drivetrain forward by about 1.5 inches by modifying the front and rear mounts, shortening the shift rod, etc., to improve the car's weight distribution.

Lots of other stuff on the car -- 2-piece wheels made from Fuchs centers, revised suspension mounting points, later model's motor -- would be apparent to any casual inspection.