JBH

This weekend at VIR has me thinking again about how we run our track events.

Friday was 3 run groups of 25, that allowed five 30 minute sessions. Intermediate and advanced students only. On a 3.27 mile track, you can imagine there was little traffic and it was easy to focus on technique.

Saturday and Sunday had 5 run groups of 40 - 50 that allowed three 30 minute sessions. Despite being a big track, there was lots of traffic and it was impossible to run more than a few turns before encountering lines of vehicles. I know, I can enter pits and wait for free space, but after a few turns, there it is again.

So, let's say there were 200 attendees total at avg payment of $200. that's $40K in receipts. I don't know what VIR costs, but when I was track chairman at Hudson Valley region, we almost always ran an event to make a profit. Until we decided to do something different: limited enrollment and break-even on costs. After all we were a not for profit organization.

So here's the question - are most Regions/Clubs making a profit on these events and if so, why? Or better yet, why not hold some events that do not try to make a profit. Loading up Driver's Ed with the objective of making money destroys the fundamental purpose: it overloads the track and frequently overloads the instructors. How about a few events per year that bring in just a slight profit, enough to offset the risk of cancellations?

I am curious on other peoples view.

993inNC

I just got back from all three days. I didn't think there was really any traffic considering 40+ cars in Red. And besides, it just gives you the next target to shoot for
Now there was a little traffic in green, but really, you can't expect a completely open track, nor would you want it. Don't you want to understand how to have to deal with traffic? My green student with no experience at VIR went from newbie to lapping some cars twice in the same session! Try close to 90 cars in racing at one time on that track and tell me about traffic......there was time to knit a sweater between traffic this weekend there was so much room.

aeshultz

Speaking from personal experience - some (lots) of regions ONLY break even on their track events, and some use whatever profit they might take from popular events and use it to fund the rest of the year's activities. No problem in that. A few thoughts - there are PCA National guidelines for track density (cars per mile of track) that are adhered to strictly, and PCA events are still some of the most cost effective out there.
Yes, sometimes you get traffic. You could always try a private, for-profit event for $600+ a day. You makes your choices....

agio

Jeff,
I was the treasurer for the 48 Hours @ Sebring for a couple of years. My recollection for the track costs are approx: Track itself = $7-10K per day; Emergency personnel = $400-$600 per day; Flaggers = $200-400 per day; Insurance = several thousand for the w/e...plus some other costs that I'm certain I've forgotten.
So, this will cost the club, say, $7.5K to $10.5K per day...it adds up quickly. Those non instuctors will pay whatever fees, say, $200 or $40K by your example. The students do get "free" instruction for the w/e.
Here's what I've suggested in the past: because the clubs are mainly Not-for-Profit enterprises, they should, on a quarterly basis, evaluate their finances. If they are profitable for track events, then perhaps reduce the entrance fees accordingly, provide communicators, dispense water, etc. But our nfp clubs should show zero profits except for reserves. Just my .02.

JBH

I understand your point, but compare Friday to Saturday. I think most people would prefer passing or being passed by two or three cars instead of twenty cars. I also think most instructors would prefer to have one student instead of two.

Racing...hmmm...90 cars....I'll pass on that

JBH

You know, there is a part of me that thinks we should put as many people as possible in these events since it is a way to share the enjoyment.

Perhaps what I am suggesting is that once a year, maybe a club or Region could hold a smaller event that either provides its members a break on price or the number of entrants. Just a thought.

38D

Do you know what the factor is?

DanS911

Your numbers are pretty close. Sebring is $8500 per day, Homestead a bit more and Moroso a bit less.
Corner workers are actually around $1000, + Fire and Rescue + Ins. +Radios +++ It does add up to some pretty big numbers especially for a two day event.

We, The DE Guys from the Gold Coast Region PCA, made a conscience decision a few years ago to
A) Shoot for break even or close to it
B) NOT overload our Instructors, we cut off the student goups so each Instructor only gets one student, usually
Our events are less crowded and more fun because of it.
C) We use Online Registration to make it easier and better for our members
Go DriverRegistration.com!!

Geoffrey

Jeff, We are not making money any longer at Lime Rock Park with the substantial (40%) increase from 2004, and again with the new rates (and increase) for 2006. That crappy go kart track is getting over 12k per weekday and is presenting a problem for many of the smaller regions here in the NE. I know Connecticut Valley has been searching for LRP days from other clubs who've decided that it is just too expensive to run there. Last year we were charging about $110 per person with a 55 person break even. This year we were at $150 and still others were near $200 just to break even. Now consider you can spend 3 days at Watkins Glen for $250 with many of the PCA regions.

Watkins Glen is less with better facilities. Let's hope the new track in NJ is much better priced.

We need to make a little money from the track events to pay for other activities. $14 per member from National does not add up to much for smaller regions like ours.

BrianKeithSmith

Hmmm.. Only 3 sessions on Fri/Sat? God I love NNJR and Zone2! At NNJR we had approx 60 cars in Red and had a complete blast. I know every region has their different reasons why they can't have run groups that large, but thankfully NNJR/Zone2 can allow those kind of groups which gives everyone more track time. 3 sessions a day just isn't enough.

I hope you guys had a good time, I'm sure you did. After all, we'e talking about VIR here...

Did you guys get much rain at all?

Brian

JBH

Friday was a blast: five 30 minute sessions was ideal. Good for me since it was my first time there and I needed some space to learn. Saturday was ok, but with long waits between my run groups and lots of traffic. I still had lots of fun.

BTW: I mean no criticism of the Carolinas Region, which ran a great event nor the Hudson Valley Region that I now understand is living with pretty outrageous LRP fees.

Larry Herman

According to our track chair it is 16 cars per mile of track. Some clubs push it to 18, but at that point it feels really crowded.

993inNC

Where you being passed by 20 cars? In Red? Irrelavant I suppose, but my take is that DE's are provided to make you a better driver, and at what point as a driver are you ever not in traffic? Now in green, traffic was a distraction to my student a couple of times, but again......all part of it.

This was my first Car. region event (Im Hurricane), and I thought it was very well run. The National Instructors Class was good (with a little unexpected twist at the end!). Weather was just on the cusp of being an interesting factor, luckily the bottom never fell out......and by Sunday afternoon we were back to short sleeved T-shirts, all in December! I really enjoyed myself........bring on the traffic!

Bob Rouleau

FWIW we limit run groups based on the level of driver. For example Green is a max of 25 cars - which also means one student per instructor. More than 25 in green and we have traffic issues on our 2.5 mile track. In Red on the other hand there is no traffic with 45 cars. We've estab;ished maximums per run group which work pretty well. Congestion and trains are more of a problem inthe lower run groups so we limit them to fewer cars.

Rgds,

bobt993

Perhaps what I am suggesting is that once a year, maybe a club or Region could hold a smaller event that either provides its members a break on price or the number of entrants. Just a thought.[/QUOTE]


I have been invited to such an event and participated. Also, our region runs an advanced only day at least once a year with "open" track time for an entire day.

Having run a completely open 3 mile track (less than 10 cars). I much prefer traffic. Treat it like fresh tracks on a mountain. It's great for the first run, but after that your looking for some company and cars to chase. I actually would pass a couple of cars and pit , wait... and start chasing again.

"Grass is Greener".. P.S. The cost of open track events is ALOT more. PCA is by far the best value. .......... my .02cents....