Infineon/Sears Point...What is a good lap time for a stock 996?
11-23-2005, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JackOlsen
But Spec Miatas run :57's at Sears, don't they? When I was there 10 days ago, there was a stock street GT3 on crappy Michelin street tires (not MPSCs, which are r-compound), and he was running :54's.
11-23-2005, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JackOlsen
I'll grant you that it's easy to be bold when I haven't driven a stock 996 at Sears. So take my statement with a grain of salt, and the phrase 'pretty easily' to mean with a really good driver.
But Spec Miatas run :57's at Sears, don't they? When I was there 10 days ago, there was a stock street GT3 on crappy Michelin street tires (not MPSCs, which are r-compound), and he was running :54's.
Maybe :58's for a 996? Are there PCA GGR results somewhere online?
But Spec Miatas run :57's at Sears, don't they? When I was there 10 days ago, there was a stock street GT3 on crappy Michelin street tires (not MPSCs, which are r-compound), and he was running :54's.
Maybe :58's for a 996? Are there PCA GGR results somewhere online?
1:57s for the spec miatas? was that the time for the miatas that were @ the TQ/NCRC event 10 days ago? the one's in the blue group were pretty easy to catch and pass (i am not fast) but i can't comment on the one's in red, if there were any.
i just checked pca-ggr. the one and only sears point stop on the TT calendar has been rained out since 1997 but for that year a 968 did a 1:55.
good to meet you, BTW. i joined you for lunch on monday
11-24-2005, 10:04 AM
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There's a PCA-GGR instructor who has a truly stock 996 (full interior) with only ROW suspension mod. He runs Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and I think he's around 1:54 at Sears.
11-28-2005, 01:45 AM
#35
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My newly purchased SM is the track record holder (obviously in the hands of the previous owner) @ 1:54.4. http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20050904/gr7.htm
The best I could manage on the burned out Hankook's provided with the car was a 1:57.8--first day in the car, first time @ Sears in 2 years, blah blah blah. Amazing how fast these cars corner. In contrast, the best I pegged myself in the Radical on that 11-14/15 Tracquest event was ~1:42. Hard to get a clean lap at a DE, and it's just not appropriate to dive for every apex, etc. just because you can.
Back to 911's. My best in my now-departed RSA was a 1:52.75, ironically in the race I wrecked the car. http://www.porscheracingclub.com/php...list.php?id=79 That car, as described in other threads, was really nothing more than some shocks and springs and Hoosiers thrown on a chassis I pulled down to the 2750lb minimum weight.
So I don't doubt at all those who are posting various numbers. But there's a lot to learn at that track, and little margin for error.
Ken
The best I could manage on the burned out Hankook's provided with the car was a 1:57.8--first day in the car, first time @ Sears in 2 years, blah blah blah. Amazing how fast these cars corner. In contrast, the best I pegged myself in the Radical on that 11-14/15 Tracquest event was ~1:42. Hard to get a clean lap at a DE, and it's just not appropriate to dive for every apex, etc. just because you can.
Back to 911's. My best in my now-departed RSA was a 1:52.75, ironically in the race I wrecked the car. http://www.porscheracingclub.com/php...list.php?id=79 That car, as described in other threads, was really nothing more than some shocks and springs and Hoosiers thrown on a chassis I pulled down to the 2750lb minimum weight.
So I don't doubt at all those who are posting various numbers. But there's a lot to learn at that track, and little margin for error.
Ken
11-28-2005, 02:30 AM
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hey Ken how's it going! i got a SM now too heheh. yah the lap times top SFR drivers are turning are simply amazing... i went to Thunderhill for the free test day today. 2:14.5 was all i could muster and here are my excuses. 2nd weekend in the car, 2 year old RA1 that sat around for a year, has flat spots, novice w2w driver... etc. etc. etc. Matt Cross's qualifying record is a blazing 2:07.x. holy smokes. i think i left at least 2 sec. on T1. that seems to be my slowest corner. not sure where i will find the rest... it's prolly like 0.5 here, 0.5 there... time to put the DL90 really to use now!!
11-28-2005, 04:19 PM
#37
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Those SMs are great little hot rods. be kind of fun to just loose the brake pedal! My next goal is to get me a Larry Oka or equiv SM car and go at it for a weekend or two.
Back to Sears (infinion) 1:54 is a flying time, as i had said. the porsche turbo day written up in Road and Track, kind of puts it in perspective. (regarding tires) 5 cars, all 996, 993 twinn turbos and a 959 to boot, couldnt break past 1:54 (all on real good "street " tires)
by best out there is 1:49.2 in a pretty stock 928, with street sport bolt on suspension, Toyo Ra1s (from SpeedGT throw aways!) and a set of headers. I know Mark anderson's 928 with 100 more hp his first time there with speedvision ran 1:52.8, (2000) and so did a lot of other real fast cars on BFG DOTs . later, his car got 70 more hp , he got a few more weekends there, and now hes running 1:39.9.
Further info, the speed Touring guys in BMWs and others with 270 rear wheel hp are running 1:47 range too on DOTs! Sears is a real handling track, obviously, but HP pays big dividends there too there! (along with being a light car)
to answer your question about what the limit of a stock 996 would be, well, if you count gutted as still being stock, the Grand Am Cup cars , 997s and 996s with the only mods being gutted and cats removed, are running almost the same times as i run at laguna seca (ie 1:40.xx) thats with guy like Darren Law at the wheel. these cars have to run the stock 996 weight of about 3050lbs and hp is only modified by the ECU updates and the lack of a cat. I would think these cars at Sears would be even faster than my ole 928 from other more nimble cars that seem to be faster against me there. I think we will be able to see Grand Am Cup at Infinion this year. that will be interesting!
Mk
Back to Sears (infinion) 1:54 is a flying time, as i had said. the porsche turbo day written up in Road and Track, kind of puts it in perspective. (regarding tires) 5 cars, all 996, 993 twinn turbos and a 959 to boot, couldnt break past 1:54 (all on real good "street " tires)
by best out there is 1:49.2 in a pretty stock 928, with street sport bolt on suspension, Toyo Ra1s (from SpeedGT throw aways!) and a set of headers. I know Mark anderson's 928 with 100 more hp his first time there with speedvision ran 1:52.8, (2000) and so did a lot of other real fast cars on BFG DOTs . later, his car got 70 more hp , he got a few more weekends there, and now hes running 1:39.9.
Further info, the speed Touring guys in BMWs and others with 270 rear wheel hp are running 1:47 range too on DOTs! Sears is a real handling track, obviously, but HP pays big dividends there too there! (along with being a light car)
to answer your question about what the limit of a stock 996 would be, well, if you count gutted as still being stock, the Grand Am Cup cars , 997s and 996s with the only mods being gutted and cats removed, are running almost the same times as i run at laguna seca (ie 1:40.xx) thats with guy like Darren Law at the wheel. these cars have to run the stock 996 weight of about 3050lbs and hp is only modified by the ECU updates and the lack of a cat. I would think these cars at Sears would be even faster than my ole 928 from other more nimble cars that seem to be faster against me there. I think we will be able to see Grand Am Cup at Infinion this year. that will be interesting!
Mk
11-28-2005, 07:40 PM
#39
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I think you are right. and thats what I ran on 280 treadwear Toyo T1S speedvision tires back in 2001 with a even older 928 2 valver. 1:56.2.
at that time, and on those same street tires, the front runners of speedvision GT in the race were low 1:50s, with Andeson running 1:52.xx with the 420 rear wheel hp 928.
Mk
at that time, and on those same street tires, the front runners of speedvision GT in the race were low 1:50s, with Andeson running 1:52.xx with the 420 rear wheel hp 928.
Mk
Originally Posted by JackOlsen
Okay, I'm back to thinking 1:56 is a fair target.
(On actual street tires, somewhere in the 200 wear-rating range -- not DOT-legal r-compounds)
(On actual street tires, somewhere in the 200 wear-rating range -- not DOT-legal r-compounds)
11-29-2005, 01:06 AM
#40
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I asked Todd Serota, an experienced 996 driver, for an opinion on this. He said a 1:56 is probably too fast for a 3.4-liter 996. He said a very good driver could probably get a 1:58, and that most drivers would have a tough time breaking two minutes.
I'm surprised by this, since it means my car is 6 seconds faster than a 996 on this track on the same tires. At other tracks, I know that the gap is less than that. But maybe Sears is particularly hard on heavier cars?
I'm surprised by this, since it means my car is 6 seconds faster than a 996 on this track on the same tires. At other tracks, I know that the gap is less than that. But maybe Sears is particularly hard on heavier cars?
11-29-2005, 02:17 AM
#41
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I was running at Sears a couple weeks ago (silver GT3). Jack you were moving! You are correct, Sears seems to be hard on heavy and powerful cars. I remember in the mid 90's RSR vs. GT2, hardly any difference in lap times! Laguna for example is a different story. Your car is very well suited for a track like Sears.
A stock 996 should be able to run a 1.58 to 2.00 there depending on the driver.
A stock 996 should be able to run a 1.58 to 2.00 there depending on the driver.
11-29-2005, 02:49 PM
#42
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As i mentioned, Ive already run on toyo T1s tires , 280 tread where and run a 1:56.2 (and this was a while ago, when the track wasnt as fast as it is now. (new surface, also all new run off areas) I did this with a 1985 engine'd porsche 928 with a street sport suspension and a set of headers. (and the 2 valve heads, not the 4 valve heads and cams) the engine is spec'ed for 288hp, with 4 valve heads.
at 3000lbs and a car with little or no tuning, i would imagine a similar 996 would be able to keep pace. Point in case, i ran against a stock 996 in POC in '99 or so, at laguna. the car was very even with mine , both of us on hoosiers. the only thing i had on the driver was more experience at Laguna. I cant imagine a good driver in a car 15 years newer, at close to the same power, not being able to keep pace. sure 1:58 is a very fast time, also proved by that road and track article that ran with 2 professional drivers and 5 porsche turbos. the fastest time was the 996 TT, however ,the 959 had times ranging from 1:57 to 2:00. Todd is a good driver as well, and i think 1:58 is a decent goal, but certainly based on my experience with my older 928 and other 996 cars ive run with, with and without DOT race rubber, 1:56 is doable.
My current car is a 928 as well, but has 30-40 more hp but no other changes. Its turning 1:49s now with DOT toyo RA1s. again, with a car rated at 312hp and a set of headers for mods (no chip, air box, etc mods) i would think a car 15 years newer should be able to keep up. I would think my time with street rubber would be no faster than 1:54 today. Also keep in mind, much of the challenge of the race cars running on street tires was running the suspension soft enough to allow the tires to grip. my car, way back then, didnt need much tuning as it already was a soft set up.
MK
at 3000lbs and a car with little or no tuning, i would imagine a similar 996 would be able to keep pace. Point in case, i ran against a stock 996 in POC in '99 or so, at laguna. the car was very even with mine , both of us on hoosiers. the only thing i had on the driver was more experience at Laguna. I cant imagine a good driver in a car 15 years newer, at close to the same power, not being able to keep pace. sure 1:58 is a very fast time, also proved by that road and track article that ran with 2 professional drivers and 5 porsche turbos. the fastest time was the 996 TT, however ,the 959 had times ranging from 1:57 to 2:00. Todd is a good driver as well, and i think 1:58 is a decent goal, but certainly based on my experience with my older 928 and other 996 cars ive run with, with and without DOT race rubber, 1:56 is doable.
My current car is a 928 as well, but has 30-40 more hp but no other changes. Its turning 1:49s now with DOT toyo RA1s. again, with a car rated at 312hp and a set of headers for mods (no chip, air box, etc mods) i would think a car 15 years newer should be able to keep up. I would think my time with street rubber would be no faster than 1:54 today. Also keep in mind, much of the challenge of the race cars running on street tires was running the suspension soft enough to allow the tires to grip. my car, way back then, didnt need much tuning as it already was a soft set up.
MK
Originally Posted by JackOlsen
I asked Todd Serota, an experienced 996 driver, for an opinion on this. He said a 1:56 is probably too fast for a 3.4-liter 996. He said a very good driver could probably get a 1:58, and that most drivers would have a tough time breaking two minutes.
I'm surprised by this, since it means my car is 6 seconds faster than a 996 on this track on the same tires. At other tracks, I know that the gap is less than that. But maybe Sears is particularly hard on heavier cars?
I'm surprised by this, since it means my car is 6 seconds faster than a 996 on this track on the same tires. At other tracks, I know that the gap is less than that. But maybe Sears is particularly hard on heavier cars?
11-29-2005, 03:00 PM
#43
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thats a time faster than most 993 cup cars with drivers that know the track, also on slicks.
when was this? Id like to see those times in print!
If its legit, thats smokin fast for a stock 993 on slicks only
MK
when was this? Id like to see those times in print!
If its legit, thats smokin fast for a stock 993 on slicks only
MK
Originally Posted by kary993
The last time I was there, which was 2 years ago this month, I ran 1:49's and 1:50's consistently. I was weighing in at 3045 lbs, running PSS9's and Pirelli slicks. Could not really get the most out of the slicks because of the suspension but they were fun nonetheless. Had Sparco seats and DAS rollbar in that weight. Everything was stock 993.
12-05-2014, 12:04 AM
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reviving an old thread -
i ran a 2.03 at sears, in a 2005 997 c2s with super sports, stock struts with eibach springs. conditions were heavy heavy rain followed by partly sunny with slightly damp sections.
it was the first time i felt comfortable at the track in my 997
i want to add some safety items to my car before i put r comps on and push hard.
i ran a 2.03 at sears, in a 2005 997 c2s with super sports, stock struts with eibach springs. conditions were heavy heavy rain followed by partly sunny with slightly damp sections.
it was the first time i felt comfortable at the track in my 997
i want to add some safety items to my car before i put r comps on and push hard.
