Sean F

Has anyone here done the Skip Barber driving or racing school? Is it worth the time/money?

Thx

Gary R.

Looked into it, 3 day program seemed right, general consensus from here and others I respect was to "skip" Skip and put the money and time into driving your car in every DE you can get to. Seat time is THE way to learn, get some books on racing, etc. I do like the Skip Barber "Going Faster" DVD I picked up, great videos of Limerock..

SundayDriver

I think it is well worth the time and money though there are other alternatives - perhaps better depending on what you want to learn and where you are going. If you could share that, we could give some better insight.

Gary, while I respect the value of seat time, and there is no substitute forit, professional coaching also has no substitute.

Gary R.

Just parroting what I was told over and over Mark. I think the biggest point was how much better it was to have your "coach" sitting next to you than it was playing follow the leader at Limerock (in this case). I'm sure it couldn't hurt, but I now agree the $2500 is better spent on the 10-15 DE's it pays for... of course if money is no issue go for it AND all the DE's!

ltc

If you can do 10-15 DE's on $2500, you're doing VERY well....given the cost of gas, consumables (tires, brakes, transportation, lodging, food, entry fees).

I agree wtih Mark. DE seat time is very good, especially in the beginning when you are (hopefully) getting lots of instructional rides. However, you quickly reach a point (intermediate solo) where professional coaching will do more for your skills than solo DE laps.

Gary R.

I am very fortunate to be both in CVR and have Limrock 30 minutes away so a day there for me can easily be $200 with gas, hence the equation. Certainly didn't mean do mislead a newbie on the possible costs of a DE day, which easily can surpass $350 if lodging is an issue..

Actual cost for me for two days at a Watkins Glen (CVR) DE -
$278 for two days of DE
$300 ($100 per night for 3 nights as I come up Sunday and leave Wednesday morning)
$250 for gas (including up and back)
$200 for food
-----------------
$1028 not including wear items like tires, etc. for 4 hours of track time and two+ days of PCA commeraderie.

Trust me, i'm not knocking Skip Barber, just saying that i'm glad I went the route I went and followed the advice I was given. I've had the great fortune of having very agressive instructors, a Race shop 15 minutes from me build my car and coach me (on and off track), and a track 30 minutes away. I won't hesitate to ask a better driver to ride with me and coach me, that's what DE is all about to me, at all levels. I would never say that I won't use SB school someday, possibly even just for fun, just have no need at this point..

SundayDriver

And there is my real point. If you are interested in DE only, then doing more DE's - seat time - until you reach a pretty high level, is probably the best use of $. If his goal is racing, then DE is a poor way to spend the $. Depending on his skill level, Skip may or may not be the best choice. SKippy is a good program but his question can not be answered in a vacuum.

Sean F

Hey Guys

Thanks for the responses. My objective is to spend next year doing as many DE's and autocrossing events as possible and to progress my skills. At the end of the year, I plan on assessing my progress and seeing if I have the desire to move on to a higher level (and maybe a dedicated track car ).

The question about skip was really about whether or not it makes sense to get some intial skills this fall before digging into DE next year. Would I get more out of the intial DE events next year with some early learning from Skip ths fall. Part of the equation is that I have a 2006 997 that I'm planning on using for DE and it's unlikely that I'll get through the breakin period this fall to make any of the DE events until next spring. I thought Skip could be an option because I wouldn't need to use my own car while getting some basic skills.

Thoughts?

BTW, Gary I'm in Westchester so within a daily commute to LR as well

Gary R.

Mark - You're absolutely right. 1957 356 had posted here ( https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/232163-newbie-questions.html ) about using his 997 for DE's, so I guess I had some insider info as to his intent.. . I started with a 997S and had a car built for DE's, kind of know where he is coming from, which is 100 directions at once..


Edit - 356, CVR has two days in November at Limerock (IF the weather holds) so you may be able to get some time in if you hit the 2000 mile mark by then. I changed my oil at 2K, as I do not follow the TCO hype about 20K oil changes.. 2K is break-in oil full of contaminants, every 5K afterwards. Cheapest insurance you can buy IMHO..

gbaker

Do the PDE. With the likes of Hurley Haywood, David Murry, et al in the passenger seat you will learn a lot quickly.

chrisp

I would do a handfull of DE's and then a professional school. It'll give you exposure to what's going on on-track and take the steepest part of the learning curve out so you can more readliy absorb and apply what's going on at the pro school.

I did a pro school after doing 5-10 DE days a year for about 8 yrs. I still learned a lot and told one of my instructors that what I learned in three days of racing school felt like the equivalent of 15-20 DE's...for me at least.

SundayDriver

I don't think that Skippy is going to do a lot for you now. Take a look at the Mid Ohio school. Their intro course has some great car control in it - threshold braking, skid car, etc. Also some incredible instructors - series champs, ex F1 driver and the list goes on.

JCP911S

Some thoughts FWIW...

First, DE is a great way to learn the basics and build a base of skill... I think you will get more out of a pro school if you have a certain level of skill going in.

Second, if racing is the goal, the DE will only take you so far. It is a good way to develop driving technique, but you must race wheel to wheel to learn how to apply that technique to competitive driving.... which is a much different skill set than you will learn in DE.

But IMHO, don;t jump into racing until you are "ready".... unless you have a solid base of driving technique, you will be over your head, get dusted, and perhaps be a danger to yourself and others... its more fun if you are reasonably competiive.

Third, decide what series you are going to compete in.... if you want to do open wheel formula cars, then you have to go to an open wheel school ASAP... driving a Porsche won't teach you much. If you plan to race sportscars, then I'd say find a school oriented more toward sportscars.

Fourth, if you have the money, do every school you can...

For me, right now, my ideal would be to spend a day at a familiar track in my car with a pro driver coaching me... I'd like to know what laptimes he could set in my car head to head, I;d like to ride with him to see how he drives my car, and like him to ride with me to critique my driving... that would be excellent.

brian J

I did Skip 3 day race school this summer and loved it. Mind you I have never before done a DE or any racing for that matter..my first time on a race track. The learning curve is steep and quick and by day 3 I was doing in the 1.05's at LRP in our final lapping session in the formula dodge cars. I dont know if this is good or not for LRP but I am now hooked and planning on doing a follow up advanced racing school next spring and then hopefully a few skippy race series events in the open wheel RT2000 cars to see if I have what it takes to be competitive. Being in those open wheel dodge cars was a fantastic experience and you get amazing feedback for the smallest imput's on these tight little cars.

Dave in Chicago

A former pro racer that I worked with recommended taking a Skippy school as you progress in intermediate DE. My stated goal at the time was to lead into racing.

The main point was "driving different cars is key to continued development of your skills". The point was getting WAY out of your comfort zone and learning to drive many things fast using universal skills.

Based on that... DE's for a while... make sure you like it... reach a bit of a plateau... indulge in a Skippy school... work until next plateau.

PCA instructors will provide great coaching for a long part of this (many of these drivers operate at pro levels). But, if you get really serious in anything, it never hurts to eventually subscribe to some professional coaching.

Now, if I just had more time and money...