sleder

I am about to purchase a new video camera for in car footage. This one will be digital and I would like to be able to acquire a setup that allows laptimes as well as speed, rpm's, shifts, and braking to be laid over the video. I believe this will be much more informative than the old Hot Lap timer... Any suggestions? I want to do this once. So please set me straight on this upcoming endeavor.
Thanks in advance.

JackOlsen

Well, the inexpensive way to do it is to get a datalogger like the DL-1. You can upgrade the software (there are two different ways to do this, I think), so that you can overlay the information onto your lap videos.

The pricey way involves a RaceCam system and a Stack data logging system. DataCam is another path, although it's somewhat limited as a DAS system.

In your shoes, I wouldn't get a camera that uses moving parts (casettes, DVD) if you're going to be mounting it to the car. Sooner or later, you will vibrate the camera to death. For about $80, you can get recorders that record directly to memory cards, with no moving parts, although the quality is more appropriate to computer viewing than on a big TV. You couple the recorder to a mocrophone and a bullet camera, and you have the makings of a very durable and flexible system.

bobt993

Check out G2X from Racepak. Unit is currently used by Road & Track. I just started using their system for tuning this year. GPS Based with sensor options (throttle, wheel, etc.) . IEEE camera interface is apparently ready or near completion. Unit logs G's gearing, rpm, speed, g-plot, track diagrams, laps, segments and whatever else you could want.

Phokaioglaukos

Bobt993, you are about the only person on Rennlist with Racepak experience. Can you post a bit here, or in another thread, how you chose that system over AiM, for example, which seems more popular?

DJF1

Check out this thread from another site. Racepak looks to be very promising...

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=307682

APKhaos

Like most markets, data loggers tend to exist in price bands. I think there are probably three such bands at present, with a few players in each band.

Sub $1000:
- TraqMate has a ver capable GPS-based data logger with RPM input and a set of digital and analog inputs for around $699. You can add a dash display for lapand sector times for a total of $999. 10 hours record time, and some nice features. Analytics package is basic, but they are working hard on this right now. One very cool feature is that you can run data from several cars on a single track map, and see the relative position of each car throughout the race/run session.
Definitely a great low-cost solution!


- Race Technology DL-1 is a solid GPS-based data logger with similar features to the Traqmate unit, but with a stronger analytics package ar present, for around $965 plus the cost of a removable storage card [not provided]. You can add a dash display for something close to $1000, which pushes the DL-1 + Display combo into the next price bracket!


- G2Extreme is another recent entrant, but from a company that has been in the game in NASCA and Drag racing for a long time. The basic logger is terrific, and the logger WITH dash display is around $899. The only external input provided is RPM. If you want other inputs, like throttle position, brake pressure, etc, the only way is to buy into their CANbus implementation, which is around $800+ for a basic package of sensors and the bus module. Info on the sensor package is not yet on the web site, but should be there soon. Once again, this kicks the product into the next price bracket.

>> No video system currently offered.

$1000 - $2000 Bracket:

- Race Technology DL-1 with Dash Display
- G2Extreme with Sensor package
- AIM MXL series: A very capable semi-pro product, but without GPS support at this price point, which makes track mapping a less than precision exercise. The AIM MXL line shares the same high featured Analytics package as their pro products. Aside from having some slight quirkyness [it IS Italian software, remember ] it provides every facility most users would want.

$2000+ Bracket:
Stack and MoTeC systems live in this range. Extremely high build quality, designed for professional race teams. No GPS. I could go on, but you definitely get what you pay for. As a data point, most Rolex GT series cars carry around $15,000 in engine management and data logging systems.


FWIW, TrackVision provides support for all of the above.

Some of these also offer their own video solutions. AIM, for example, has a $1200 box that integrates the video stream ino thte data capture in real time. Race Technology has a post-process video overlay option. MoTeC is rumored to have a high-spec video capture and intergration box in the works, for something like $5,000.

As you can see, there are lots of options. Its a question of deciding what your overall needs are from a data analysis perspective.

If Solid GPS and two axis Gs, along with a few analog and digital sensors is what you want, then there are some good choices in the sub-$1000 bracket.

If you plan to challenge CC for the analytics crown, then be prepared to move to the sub-$2000 bracket.

THis is a fairly general summary, but I hope it helps make the decision a little easier.

kary993

It seems to me after reviewing these products that the G2X provides the biggest banfg for the buck in terms of learning and driver improvement. Having g loads, speed, segmented analysis, and tach data can really help most drivers. The complexity of installation seems much reduced with the G2X with the exception of the tach readings. So how does one install the tach channel to a 993 for example? I could not find the info on the site at all.

sleder

There are certainly a few choices. I was originally only looking to layover video what was going on in the car while videotaping.And that is going to run me a minimum of 1000. Hmmm. What if I want to simply capture the lap times and down load to my laptop spreadsheet? Can I possibly put on screen- lap times?
This is certainly more involved than I anticipated.
Thanks for all the insight...any other ideas for the new thoughts?

JackOlsen

The easy way to do it is to spend $200 on an Ultralap and $100 on a straight-to-memory-chip camera. The Ultralap wil download lap times (along with the date, time of day, and ambient temperature), which you can compare to the time stamp on the video and match up in editing, if you want.

To put the lap times on the video in real time is going to be a pain in the neck. Closest you might want to try is to mount the lap timer's display in the frame of the camera and cross your fingers for good lighting.

bobt993

Sorry about the delay. I started using the G2X in May with early product offering (beta tester). Unit worked as promised and I logged 5 east coast tracks along with a full gps model of the Nurburgring. Tac rpm sensor is an easy hookup. Additional sensors are available sometime this month direct from Racepak. I have been using the data to improve car attitude in turns and gearing selection through segments which are always debated by club members; ie: short shift to 4th or use 3rd etc..... I think the wheel sensor and throttle/brake sensors are vital for 10/10th driving, but for DE this unit works well without much added. Lap timing is very accurate (less than 1/10th sec accuracy). Segment timing is the best training tool. I think the unit will be most valuable with the camera interface working. They also just added a g-plot for a friction circle. Very helpful for trailbraking and proper turn-in, braking. I am learning more about translating the data to actual tuning and driving changes. It will be interesting to place in to student's cars for analyzing braking/ turning smoothness next year. The basic unit can be setup in under 5minutes in a different car.

sleder

That seems to make a great deal of sense and save me a number of dollars as well. Thanks Jack! I will check out a video camera now...

bobt993

20minutes.....: Pull the tac from the dash, and use your 993 manual for finding the tac pulse wire. Or do what I did (not suggested) using a 10x prope on an oscilloscope, I probed the wiring harness at the tac for duty cycled wave form (5volt pk/pk) that responded to the engine rpm's properly. This made sense to me from my Elect Engineering background. Wire directly hooks up to the G2X,(I can send you a color code and photo of the actual location. Connection is then calibrated to the G2X in the unit setup. The whole process takes 5 minutes to calibrate. Readings are very accurate as I often would check at track out for max rpms (tac is of course turned in the dash for redline at 12 o'clock). You can also set the gearing from this and the G2X will logg what gear you are in at any given time. I did not do this initially because it was obvious from the rpm/speed data what gears I am in when I look at the run session.

Jack667

I bought the DaVid system from AIM and I'll post some video when its finally installed properly and after I'm out on the track...

chrisoutzen

Have a look at this one. It is called the GBox.

Here is some video of what it can do.

Two laps at WGI

kary993

I have looked at this before but it really does not do anything in terms of data acquisition nor analysis.