Putnam Park Recap And PSM/ABS Disconnection
10-11-2005, 11:26 PM
#197
Rennlist Member
Some times the best action is to bite your tongue, make a mental note and walk away (physically or otherwise). There will be a DE or race in common in the future and maybe the issue will be settled or maybe it won't be important any more. The one thing about racing...it is put up or shut up!!
Mike
Mike
10-12-2005, 12:13 AM
#198
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Very nicely worded, TD. Especially this,
"It wasn't too long ago in history that you would have been threatened with physical violence or death for calling another man a coward. The Internet seems to have made people take threats and insults a little less seriously, which is too bad."
I was thinking of posting something to that effect - Do we really not expect to meet face to face with the people we write these things about? Would you say these things to his face, and would a reasonable person not expect a reaction? My personal answer is "not where I grew up." Have keyboards and glass screens made us that isolated?
Nicely written.
Alan
"It wasn't too long ago in history that you would have been threatened with physical violence or death for calling another man a coward. The Internet seems to have made people take threats and insults a little less seriously, which is too bad."
I was thinking of posting something to that effect - Do we really not expect to meet face to face with the people we write these things about? Would you say these things to his face, and would a reasonable person not expect a reaction? My personal answer is "not where I grew up." Have keyboards and glass screens made us that isolated?
Nicely written.
Alan
10-12-2005, 12:20 AM
#199
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Quick Question for you, Color Change -
When you are logging 'personal bests' or 'fast laps' at DE's, how do you go about doing so?
Are you a) recalling your fastest time of the event, b) performing a sort of pseudo time trial (doing 1-3 laps on the clock and forcing that to be your 'time'), c) recalling an average of some sort, or d)some other means.
I ask because I frequently read posts related to people's 'times' at a track and this always puzzles me a bit. Track and ambient conditions constantly change. Rarely are people's cars identical from event to event or session to session for that matter. At Club Races, I have seen people turn times out of their norm by following a faster car. The list goes on.
The reason I am curious as to your means in particular is becasue you seem to take relatively great interest in the analytics of driving.
Oh, one more thing - with regard to your setup: A general rule that I have observed is that if the car's behavior needs adjustment from turn-in to mid-turn, mess with the front (swaybar, bump, rebound, toe, camber etc). If the behavior problem is from apex to exit, mess with the rear. And, on top of that, don't let the settings difference between front and rear ever get too out of whack. I.e Front sway bar full hard and the rear full soft.
When you are logging 'personal bests' or 'fast laps' at DE's, how do you go about doing so?
Are you a) recalling your fastest time of the event, b) performing a sort of pseudo time trial (doing 1-3 laps on the clock and forcing that to be your 'time'), c) recalling an average of some sort, or d)some other means.
I ask because I frequently read posts related to people's 'times' at a track and this always puzzles me a bit. Track and ambient conditions constantly change. Rarely are people's cars identical from event to event or session to session for that matter. At Club Races, I have seen people turn times out of their norm by following a faster car. The list goes on.
The reason I am curious as to your means in particular is becasue you seem to take relatively great interest in the analytics of driving.
Oh, one more thing - with regard to your setup: A general rule that I have observed is that if the car's behavior needs adjustment from turn-in to mid-turn, mess with the front (swaybar, bump, rebound, toe, camber etc). If the behavior problem is from apex to exit, mess with the rear. And, on top of that, don't let the settings difference between front and rear ever get too out of whack. I.e Front sway bar full hard and the rear full soft.
10-12-2005, 12:41 AM
#200
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PatK: OK, odd questions but I’ll say what I do, but I am recommending nothing. If I want to try to set a fast lap I will often line up first on the grid to be sure I have some running room. Because my car is so fast, this is often a big issue. I will try to warm the tires quickly and push hard after my in lap. I usually get 1 or 2 hot laps before I hit traffic. At RA, I got 7 clean laps because the track was so big.
It was like having a private track. I usually just look at my fastest lap. I went into RA with a sub 2:30 goal and got that on the first session of the second day. I did it again in the second session just to make sure I could do it easily and I could. After that I didn’t push it real hard in the straights because it is riskier than I like.
Me interested in the analytics of driving? Naw
. If you really want to see my analytics, I look at multiple laps and do a statistical analysis on how I drive the track (basically looking at the g-sum variance through each turn). I even break the turns into segments, entry, mid, and exit. I will even sometimes look at turn radius to see if I am consistent with my line. This way, if on you only look at one lap that you happened to blow the entry to a certain turn, you might conclude “I need to look there for improvement” but that would be wrong if on the other 10 laps you did it fine. It’s a pain to do this as I have to download into Excel to do the statistics but for tracks I visit often, it works well – at least for me.
Thanks for the set-up tips, that’s what I did. I softened the rear bar two notches and the car was pretty damn nice. I was still having some trouble putting the power down but the wicked oversteer was gone. I could throttle steer nicely through the kink and turn in was awesome.
It was like having a private track. I usually just look at my fastest lap. I went into RA with a sub 2:30 goal and got that on the first session of the second day. I did it again in the second session just to make sure I could do it easily and I could. After that I didn’t push it real hard in the straights because it is riskier than I like.Me interested in the analytics of driving? Naw
. If you really want to see my analytics, I look at multiple laps and do a statistical analysis on how I drive the track (basically looking at the g-sum variance through each turn). I even break the turns into segments, entry, mid, and exit. I will even sometimes look at turn radius to see if I am consistent with my line. This way, if on you only look at one lap that you happened to blow the entry to a certain turn, you might conclude “I need to look there for improvement” but that would be wrong if on the other 10 laps you did it fine. It’s a pain to do this as I have to download into Excel to do the statistics but for tracks I visit often, it works well – at least for me.Thanks for the set-up tips, that’s what I did. I softened the rear bar two notches and the car was pretty damn nice. I was still having some trouble putting the power down but the wicked oversteer was gone. I could throttle steer nicely through the kink and turn in was awesome.
10-12-2005, 10:25 AM
#202
Lifetime Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ColorChange
Mark:
If I spend the time to dig through the records and document Mike's offenses, and it shows very clearly what I said is true, what will you do?
If I spend the time to dig through the records and document Mike's offenses, and it shows very clearly what I said is true, what will you do?
-and-
If Mike, in fact, did the things you claim he did
-then-
I will apologize for questioning your comments and judgements about him.
Now, if I find the threads where you called people names, lashed out with obscenities, etc, what will you do?
10-12-2005, 10:48 AM
#203
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Mark:
OK.
And you will have to go back to who started the personal attacks. If you find where I have launched the personal attacks first, I will apologize.
You will have my proof shortly. I do not believe you can find yours.
OK.
And you will have to go back to who started the personal attacks. If you find where I have launched the personal attacks first, I will apologize.
You will have my proof shortly. I do not believe you can find yours.
10-12-2005, 11:20 AM
#204
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Nice post TD.
Seems like The Challenge has been dropped. But if there is still interest, I have a way that might solve the "which car" issue. First of all, I completely understand why Mike would not want the challenge done is his car. So I will not even suggest that. Tim seems perfectly happy with his car being used. The only issue is that Mike is a little leery about this as he is unaware of the car and its setup.
So, I put forth that Mike might be OK with using Tim's car IF Tim allowed, and paid for a shop of Mike's choosing to Tech and setup the car. I'm sure Mike knows someone that could get the car close enough in setup to be safe. If Mike loses the bet then he has to fork over the cash for the bet PLUS make sure Tim's car gets put back the way it was. If Tim loses he's not really out anything more than the bet because he has a "diabolical" setup and now he does not.
To Tim: Just a bit of advice. I have seen you say "You do not know me!" on a number of occasions. But what you seem to not understand is that people here on Rennlist DO know you! They know you based on what you say in your posts. If you do not like what Rennlist knows about you, only YOU can change that.
Seems like The Challenge has been dropped. But if there is still interest, I have a way that might solve the "which car" issue. First of all, I completely understand why Mike would not want the challenge done is his car. So I will not even suggest that. Tim seems perfectly happy with his car being used. The only issue is that Mike is a little leery about this as he is unaware of the car and its setup.
So, I put forth that Mike might be OK with using Tim's car IF Tim allowed, and paid for a shop of Mike's choosing to Tech and setup the car. I'm sure Mike knows someone that could get the car close enough in setup to be safe. If Mike loses the bet then he has to fork over the cash for the bet PLUS make sure Tim's car gets put back the way it was. If Tim loses he's not really out anything more than the bet because he has a "diabolical" setup and now he does not.
To Tim: Just a bit of advice. I have seen you say "You do not know me!" on a number of occasions. But what you seem to not understand is that people here on Rennlist DO know you! They know you based on what you say in your posts. If you do not like what Rennlist knows about you, only YOU can change that.
10-12-2005, 01:12 PM
#205
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This appears to be about as far back as I can search. From the following thread. This was the first discussion of RA corner speeds I believe.
Here is one direct discussion.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...light=countach
Post 116, page 8.
OK Mark, What am I to make of that?
Here is one direct discussion.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...light=countach
Post 116, page 8.
Originally Posted by Mike in Chi
Change
I'm no engineer. (Actually just an English Major)
But I have been impressed with the emphasis that has been placed on precise definition in this thread.
Given that I'd like to question a statement you made:
"I have only been on two tracks, Gingerman hot and Road America but only rudimentary work up there."
As I recall from another thread, you said you had only done track touring at Road America, and never driven it at speed.
I think in theory, and in practice, both "work" and "rudimentary" as an adjective would be misleading and an incorrect statement of your experience.
Unless "rudimentary work" has a different definition in engineering than in conversational English?
Suggestion: "I have x number of days at Gingerman and have driven Road America at 60 mph." would better convey your experience.
I'm no engineer. (Actually just an English Major)
But I have been impressed with the emphasis that has been placed on precise definition in this thread.
Given that I'd like to question a statement you made:
"I have only been on two tracks, Gingerman hot and Road America but only rudimentary work up there."
As I recall from another thread, you said you had only done track touring at Road America, and never driven it at speed.
I think in theory, and in practice, both "work" and "rudimentary" as an adjective would be misleading and an incorrect statement of your experience.
Unless "rudimentary work" has a different definition in engineering than in conversational English?
Suggestion: "I have x number of days at Gingerman and have driven Road America at 60 mph." would better convey your experience.
Originally Posted by ColorChange
Mike, yes, you are correct. I have not driven much of RA at race speeds. They have open touring times during various races there and that is all I have done. You might get 2 or 3 turns at speed per lap as you work around traffic, but I never got much over 100 mph.
What do I call rudimentary work, basic video and data collection, and a few turns approaching race speeds. You seam to be implying that I purposely mislead people. I don't think I did. According to Webster's - rudimentary – elementary, incompletely or imperfectly developed. Did I mislead, especially when taken in direct contrast to Gingerman where I say I was running hot (fast)? I would call race work up determining lines, determining corner entry speeds, brake points, …. I am no where near that at RA and never said I was.
If you insist, I have 3 full days at Gingerman, 2 short partial days, and have driven RA at 100mph top speed but no where near racing speeds or racing laps. OK?
What do I call rudimentary work, basic video and data collection, and a few turns approaching race speeds. You seam to be implying that I purposely mislead people. I don't think I did. According to Webster's - rudimentary – elementary, incompletely or imperfectly developed. Did I mislead, especially when taken in direct contrast to Gingerman where I say I was running hot (fast)? I would call race work up determining lines, determining corner entry speeds, brake points, …. I am no where near that at RA and never said I was.
If you insist, I have 3 full days at Gingerman, 2 short partial days, and have driven RA at 100mph top speed but no where near racing speeds or racing laps. OK?
Originally Posted by Mike in Chi
You might look up "work" too. Perhaps "research" would have served you better.
I guess it was your "110 mph through the carroussel" statement that you made a few weeks ago. I asked you in what car you did that, and your answer was in your countach. In a subsequent thread, you corrected that saying the DAS says that's what it can do in theory.
This is not meant to start a flame war.
I'm all for you sharing theory with us. There is something we can learn from everyone, no matter what his experience level.
My concern is that when a noobie with little or no track experience reads a post stated in such a knowing manner, that person may go out and try it. Be it trail braking, left foot braking or speeds for a given corner.
Nobody in a street car should be trying to do 110 through the carroussel.
Will you be doing the Road America DE this May?
I'd be glad to further discuss theory and actual experience with you. I'll even pay for the beer at Siebkens.
Here's the first one
I guess it was your "110 mph through the carroussel" statement that you made a few weeks ago. I asked you in what car you did that, and your answer was in your countach. In a subsequent thread, you corrected that saying the DAS says that's what it can do in theory.
This is not meant to start a flame war.
I'm all for you sharing theory with us. There is something we can learn from everyone, no matter what his experience level.
My concern is that when a noobie with little or no track experience reads a post stated in such a knowing manner, that person may go out and try it. Be it trail braking, left foot braking or speeds for a given corner.
Nobody in a street car should be trying to do 110 through the carroussel.
Will you be doing the Road America DE this May?
I'd be glad to further discuss theory and actual experience with you. I'll even pay for the beer at Siebkens.
Here's the first one
Originally Posted by ColorChange
My 3/2/04 from the RE: Post your favorite turns! Thread in this forum.
“And I have only done reconnaissance laps at RA. Can’t wait to work it up full bore.”
Mike, your 3/2/04 post AFTER mine, same thread
“Colorchange
You mentioned last week that you are going 110 through the carroussel at Road America.
What are you doing through the Kink?”
My following response, same day.
Mike:
I have never run RA flat out yet. I pulled the data from the smartest guys I know in the racing business (Northwestern Ph.D. + experience).
The guys at Precision AutoResearch offer a jam packed technical program called Race Data power. I pulled the following data off of that. With decent track tires, getting 1.25 g's should be easy. As you can see, you can pull 120 at entry on the carousel and 103 on exit. For kink, you are looking at 146. Yow!
My Countach can only pull 1.0 g's on street tires so I should have been able to get 108 at the carousel but I have not worked up to full speeds yet.
Mike, this is the second time you have implied that I lied or purposely misled. Please don’t do it again unless you pull all the facts together OK? My car is due in May and I (and the car) will not be ready for RA. In fact, I plan on brining my E55AMG to Gingerman if the tt isn’t here yet. That should be fun.
Finally, I am not recommending anybody do anything as a general rule. I fully admit that I am not qualified and I want no responsibility. I make these points as an educational discussion, not as preaching as to what people should do. I will rarely make the statement “you should do this”.
Mark in Baltimore, if it will make you feel better, pretend I have 0 experience. Now, do you have any comments about what I have said. I have no problem with credibility and looking at anything I say with a skeptical eye. If I were you I would do it, as a matter of fact, I do that with everything. The only thing I would ask you to do is to think about whether what I have said is right or wrong. Again, NOONE SHOULD TAKE WHAT I SAY AS GOSPEL AND ACT ON IT. This is purely for discussion purposes. Also, I have stated repeatedly and in numerous threads that I have almost no experience. I have never intentionally mislead anyone on that fact.
I find this downplaying of seat time to be disconcerting. So, without seat time, how do you propose to test and refine your theories? Based upon your heavy reliance on your models, I would expect that you would be able to turn some of the fastest laps your track has ever seen. Now, if you can't turn some blazingly fast times, you have to ask yourself, why not? IMHO, the answer is lack of seat time since your theories are not making you faster.
My statement does not downplay seat time! It simply says seat time is not the ONLY way to go fast. That was the error in the post I corrected. I can show you prior posts where I have said seat time is the best and most important thing. Don’t jump to wrong and unsupported conclusions.
Secondly, knowing how to do something says nothing about being able to do something. I have said it before, I am strong (not great) technically on the theory, but I am a pretty poor driver. Yes, the biggest reason why I am not faster is because of a severe lack of seat time. Truthfully, my kids are more important than my racing hobby so I cannot remedy that shortcoming any time soon (as a big time commitment is required and I started tracking way too late). I also think you’re being funny with the Jim Clark comment. Here is what I will say, for someone with fewer than 5 days of track experience, I’m pretty damn good and I have the data to prove it. Compared to many of you and most good drivers, do I suck? Yes. Is that fair?
…
“And I have only done reconnaissance laps at RA. Can’t wait to work it up full bore.”
Mike, your 3/2/04 post AFTER mine, same thread
“Colorchange
You mentioned last week that you are going 110 through the carroussel at Road America.
What are you doing through the Kink?”
My following response, same day.
Mike:
I have never run RA flat out yet. I pulled the data from the smartest guys I know in the racing business (Northwestern Ph.D. + experience).
The guys at Precision AutoResearch offer a jam packed technical program called Race Data power. I pulled the following data off of that. With decent track tires, getting 1.25 g's should be easy. As you can see, you can pull 120 at entry on the carousel and 103 on exit. For kink, you are looking at 146. Yow!
My Countach can only pull 1.0 g's on street tires so I should have been able to get 108 at the carousel but I have not worked up to full speeds yet.
Mike, this is the second time you have implied that I lied or purposely misled. Please don’t do it again unless you pull all the facts together OK? My car is due in May and I (and the car) will not be ready for RA. In fact, I plan on brining my E55AMG to Gingerman if the tt isn’t here yet. That should be fun.
Finally, I am not recommending anybody do anything as a general rule. I fully admit that I am not qualified and I want no responsibility. I make these points as an educational discussion, not as preaching as to what people should do. I will rarely make the statement “you should do this”.
Mark in Baltimore, if it will make you feel better, pretend I have 0 experience. Now, do you have any comments about what I have said.
I have no problem with credibility and looking at anything I say with a skeptical eye. If I were you I would do it, as a matter of fact, I do that with everything. The only thing I would ask you to do is to think about whether what I have said is right or wrong. Again, NOONE SHOULD TAKE WHAT I SAY AS GOSPEL AND ACT ON IT. This is purely for discussion purposes. Also, I have stated repeatedly and in numerous threads that I have almost no experience. I have never intentionally mislead anyone on that fact.I find this downplaying of seat time to be disconcerting. So, without seat time, how do you propose to test and refine your theories? Based upon your heavy reliance on your models, I would expect that you would be able to turn some of the fastest laps your track has ever seen. Now, if you can't turn some blazingly fast times, you have to ask yourself, why not? IMHO, the answer is lack of seat time since your theories are not making you faster.
My statement does not downplay seat time! It simply says seat time is not the ONLY way to go fast. That was the error in the post I corrected. I can show you prior posts where I have said seat time is the best and most important thing. Don’t jump to wrong and unsupported conclusions.
Secondly, knowing how to do something says nothing about being able to do something. I have said it before, I am strong (not great) technically on the theory, but I am a pretty poor driver. Yes, the biggest reason why I am not faster is because of a severe lack of seat time. Truthfully, my kids are more important than my racing hobby so I cannot remedy that shortcoming any time soon (as a big time commitment is required and I started tracking way too late). I also think you’re being funny with the Jim Clark comment. Here is what I will say, for someone with fewer than 5 days of track experience, I’m pretty damn good and I have the data to prove it. Compared to many of you and most good drivers, do I suck? Yes. Is that fair?
…
Originally Posted by Mike in Chi
Change
Make that three times.
Make that three times.
OK Mark, What am I to make of that?
10-12-2005, 01:18 PM
#206
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Dang dude. LET IT GO. You are starting to look as bad as Al Gore after he lost the election in 2000.
The points have been made over and over and over again. And while its fun to read all of this, you have to move on with your life (which obviously isn't too full of anything if you have time to reply to all of the posts you've replied to in this thread alone).
LET IT GO. Relax, go on a vacation. Hug your wife. Kiss your kids. Move on...
Brian
The points have been made over and over and over again. And while its fun to read all of this, you have to move on with your life (which obviously isn't too full of anything if you have time to reply to all of the posts you've replied to in this thread alone).
LET IT GO. Relax, go on a vacation. Hug your wife. Kiss your kids. Move on...
Brian
10-12-2005, 01:28 PM
#207
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NetManiac:
Mike knows Sol at Perfect Power who has done most of the work on my car. Admittedly, he has not been asked to "set-up" my car, but has done more of what I have requested, so please, don't hold him accountable for my car's handling problems; those are my problems. I think Sol will be able to say my car is safe, and I can get most anyone to drive my car and say it is no longer “dangerous” to drive. Maybe that would address Mike’s concerns in my car?
Brian, while generally I agree with you, having someone call you a liar is not something I let go of easily.
Mike knows Sol at Perfect Power who has done most of the work on my car. Admittedly, he has not been asked to "set-up" my car, but has done more of what I have requested, so please, don't hold him accountable for my car's handling problems; those are my problems. I think Sol will be able to say my car is safe, and I can get most anyone to drive my car and say it is no longer “dangerous” to drive. Maybe that would address Mike’s concerns in my car?
Brian, while generally I agree with you, having someone call you a liar is not something I let go of easily.
Last edited by ColorChange; 10-12-2005 at 01:50 PM.
10-12-2005, 01:33 PM
#208
Lifetime Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ColorChange
OK Mark, What am I to make of that?
Regardless, it appears to me that you are the one who used both the terms 'lie' and 'misled' and Mike responded to you. I don't take that as Mike calling you a lier, rather you chose to twist his words into an assertion that he called you that and then he chose to agree, rather than fight you on that. Hard to claim that Mike called you a liar when those were your words, not his.
Again, a year and a half ago - What are you to make of that? I think you should build a bridge and get over it.
I understnad your desire to ignore the other half of my comments and what you are prepared to do.
10-12-2005, 02:09 PM
#209
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Mark: I made the statements:
There is a reason for my rudely calling out Mike, and that was intentional. If you are not familiar with the history of my online relationship with Mike it is not a good one.
1. He has repeatedly accused me of lying.
2. He has repeatedly falsely misquoted me and even after being shown the original quote and being implored to stop doing it, he has continued.
3. He personally insulted me, before I had insulted him.
4. When his errors have been pointed out to him, unequivocally, he has refused to offer the apology I was due.
…
You notice the word history there don’t you? Secondly, I didn't have to go that far back, it was just a very clear example I remembered.
So I asked you:
To which you said:
I have done exactly that. And yet you refuse to offer the apology you promised because the particular example I chose is old? What? Either he did it or he didn't! By the way, I can find much more recent examples, but I hardly believe it would make a difference as you apparently think a wrong is no longer wrong if it is old and that type of value system (or better, lack of) makes no “sense” to me.
Finally, what comments am I ignoring? I am waiting for your clear examples where I have called people names, etc. in an unprovoked confrontation.
Mark:
Please look at what this says about you. I can appreciate your trying to “protect” your friend, but to me, a true friend would tell the truth and tell your friend he is wrong and owes an apology.
TD:
I am pretty comfortable in your judgment, would you care to comment?
Originally Posted by ColorChange
There is a reason for my rudely calling out Mike, and that was intentional. If you are not familiar with the history of my online relationship with Mike it is not a good one.
1. He has repeatedly accused me of lying.
2. He has repeatedly falsely misquoted me and even after being shown the original quote and being implored to stop doing it, he has continued.
3. He personally insulted me, before I had insulted him.
4. When his errors have been pointed out to him, unequivocally, he has refused to offer the apology I was due.
…
You notice the word history there don’t you? Secondly, I didn't have to go that far back, it was just a very clear example I remembered.
So I asked you:
Originally Posted by ColorChange
Mark:
If I spend the time to dig through the records and document Mike's offenses, and it shows very clearly what I said is true, what will you do?
If I spend the time to dig through the records and document Mike's offenses, and it shows very clearly what I said is true, what will you do?
To which you said:
Originally Posted by SundayDriver
If you find this, and keep it in context, including links to the entire thread
-and-
If Mike, in fact, did the things you claim he did
-then-
I will apologize for questioning your comments and judgements about him.
Now, if I find the threads where you called people names, lashed out with obscenities, etc, what will you do?
-and-
If Mike, in fact, did the things you claim he did
-then-
I will apologize for questioning your comments and judgements about him.
Now, if I find the threads where you called people names, lashed out with obscenities, etc, what will you do?
I have done exactly that. And yet you refuse to offer the apology you promised because the particular example I chose is old? What? Either he did it or he didn't! By the way, I can find much more recent examples, but I hardly believe it would make a difference as you apparently think a wrong is no longer wrong if it is old and that type of value system (or better, lack of) makes no “sense” to me.
Finally, what comments am I ignoring? I am waiting for your clear examples where I have called people names, etc. in an unprovoked confrontation.
Mark:
Please look at what this says about you. I can appreciate your trying to “protect” your friend, but to me, a true friend would tell the truth and tell your friend he is wrong and owes an apology.
TD:
I am pretty comfortable in your judgment, would you care to comment?
10-12-2005, 03:09 PM
#210
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pennsylvania Posse
Posts: 154
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Hey CC, I know you wont reply to me (which is fine), but I'll post what everyone else is thinking.
Where the hell does Mike accuse you of lying? He simply pushes you into telling the truth which you eventually do. Seems like you should apologize for lying to everyone about your track experience.
I ask again, please post where Mike accuses you of lying? Make it Bold and Red so we can all see it. Because I hate to tell you, it ain't in those posts you quoted above.
Where the hell does Mike accuse you of lying? He simply pushes you into telling the truth which you eventually do. Seems like you should apologize for lying to everyone about your track experience.
I ask again, please post where Mike accuses you of lying? Make it Bold and Red so we can all see it. Because I hate to tell you, it ain't in those posts you quoted above.