brian J

http://www.teamjuicyracing.com/vids/...850B65877254=1

ZBlue996Kam

I'm sorry to see that happen!

What kind of car was it?

sjanes

Car is a Subaru Legacy GT. Video has been floating around the internet for a while.

brian J

I dont know actual car and driver. Just an interesting video I stumbled accross.

brian J

What was the cause of this spin and crash? Its not obvious to me what driver did wrong here. Too early turn in maybe? Anyone?

Phokaioglaukos

Looked to me like a lift in the turn and then he kept trying to save it, got sideways on the grass and the tires dug in and caused the roll.

Z-man

I know the driver of the 911S that was infront of the Subaru through Noname.

As for what happened in the video - from what I recall, the guy over-cooked it into the corner, pinched it in, and the car got sideways at about the same point where the surface grade increased. So the hill 'caught' him.

-Z.

Edit: It was not at a PCA event, BTW

OGRacing

After watching the video several times it looks like a deadly combination of early apex, a lift off the throttle at a critical instant, the driver being a little "excited" and trying to save it when he rotated ninety degrees to the direction of travel.

It could happen to any of us.

Hopefully the driver did not have too many payments left on the car.

Kudos to the driver for sharing the video.

cheers
Dave Parker
Manager OG Racing

Geo

I have done considerable analysis of this video (which has been going around for many years now). Several things went wrong.

1) The driver was clearly driving over his head. If you watch the video carefully, you will notice that he misses his marks a lot leading up to the fateful corner. When I teach DE classroom sessions I always tell people that if they miss their marks more than two corners in a row they are over their head and should slow down considerably for a lap or two until they consistently hit their marks and then incrementally ramp up the speed. In the video the driver even groans loudly when he misses his marks in one corner.

2) Target fixation. This is a VERY VERY dangerous thing and something that often gets overlooked. He was so intent on running down the 911 (perhaps even more so because of the video) that he just lost focus on the track. This is something that EVERYONE is susceptible to. You can even watch pro races and watch one driver put two wheels off and the driver behind does exactly the same thing. This is caused by pure target fixation.

This is dangerous on many levels. You start driving the car in front of you instead of the track. If the car in front drives completely off the track for some reason, if you're target fixing on him, you are likely to do the same. Anybody who tells you they have never dropped two when the guy in front did either hasn't been racing long or is lying about it. I know I have done it. It's way too easy to do and you ALWAYS have to be cognizant of this.

If you watch the video carefully you will see the 911 move across the field of view as they go around the corners right up to the fateful corner. In that corner the 911 stays fixed in the field of view. Couldn't have been more clear if you had crosshairs in the windshield.

3) Because of the target fixation, the driver of the Scooby turned in too early by about 20-30 feet! If you watch it frame by frame you will see the car leave the of the track well before the turn-in cone.

4) When he realized he blew the corner he tried valiantly to gather it up. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor however. He would have been better off to just cut straight across the grass keeping the wheel straight while easing off the throttle so that when he entered the pavement again he had the traction to turn in up the hill. He also could have gone both feet in, a textbook case, however, once he was in the grass it wouldn't do him any good because the cause of the roll was the wheels digging in and both feel in would not likely have prevented that (while in the grass). Both feet in while on the pavement however would have probably saved him or at least given him a better shot.

All this critique aside, I feel for the guy. It could happen to any of us. I've dropped a wheel at the exit of a high speed corner and saved it, but I realized instantly I could have very easily gone into an uncontrolled series of tank slappers and rolled it. It gave me pause, especially as the car was my business partner's car.

This video is a text book case that is fodder for considerable positive discussion.

sjanes

Subaru driver's take on the incident: http://www.opentracking.com/rolled_it.htm

agio

George,
Your explanation of that video was "spot" on from my point of view--all issues you covered were excellent. For whatever it's worth, my rule of thumb with students, has been miss 3 consecutive turns, and we pit; helmets off; and thoroughtly discuss what's going wrong...but maybe I will adjust downward to 2.

brian J

George

Thanks for that excellent explanation.

Geo

Actually, I'm right with you on using 3. It's easy to miss two if you miss one. But three in a row indicates a serious problem IMHO.

RedlineMan

I laugh every time I see this clip.

It's pretty simple really. The guy never even moves his hands when the tail steps out, until it is waaaay too late, of course. You could time his reaction with a calendar! ROOKIE!

Driving over his head? Yeh, a bit. Over his head lead to the FLOOR PAN being over his head in the end, eh? He should have included this in his naration; "Now I'm gonna turn in really hot and not countersteer when the tail comes around. Let's see what happens when I try to drive like Petter Solberg."

pcar964

Haha - I'm glad someone else noticed that! When I saw the rear end come around, I couldn't believe he waited so long to start countersteering. Total lack of car control instincts - but a very good (and unfortunately costly) lesson for him. So many people when they're starting out think of driving as a "logical thought process" that you have to think through... but in reality, to be competent and fast your reactions and inputs have to be seamless and automatic, not thought-out or planned. Some people are born with a great "feel" for car control, and quickly develop their skills and speed. Others have to work hard to learn basic car control... I honestly doubt whether anyone without good natural feel can ever become a really good driver.