Cris Brady

Thanks Rockfan.

Ha! dream on I'd love to prep my car to 944 cup specs, junk the interior and then run as H class. But as they say, notgonnahappen.com. PCA is PCA and as far as they are concerned, they got a winning formula going. And I don't blame them. The Glen, Sebring and some others get over 200 racers. If you wanna play with them, you have to abide to their rules. Just like any other racing series.

M758

Our only realy hope I think is a better classing GT. Not that a SCCA car could ever be competitive in any GT class, but if they classes are reworked effectivly then these cars will at least be slow rather than painfully slow in class.


I orginally posted a rule change with 10% weight reduction, but that would be achieved with interior removal and A/C removal. Bascily removing all the easy stuff most folks would want to pull out anyway or SCCA IT rules allow. I figured it would be best to allows this accross all PCA classes rather than just for the 944. My feeling is that there were many stock class runner that would love to lose some weight and gain little speed, but don't want to end up in GT. Heck take normals stock class car and take 10% of weight off and not only is the car faster, but also goes through tires and brakes better and also puts less stress on all the parts. Simply when you are removing stuff like interior bits and A/C system it is all dead weight and taking them out can only increase the relabililty by decreasing wear on the running gear.

Interestinly the rules makers like the 10% idea, but not simple way of pulling the carpets and A/C systems. Nope you can pull 10%, but you still need do it the hardway rather than the easy way.

Seems unfortunate to me that PCA seems have no interest in the budget racer. One you would like to go fast, but has limited funds. They seem stuck on the old idea of combo street/race cars. While it is nice idea and certinaly some value it the powers that be squash and concept inbetween a combo street/race car allow you two options. Full interior "race" cars or full fledged no holds barred no money spared super race cars.

That leave no room for guys who want fast reliable cars for little money. Really there is no way you can tell me it less expensive to run a mid 80's stock motored 944 at 2779 lbs vs that same car at 2450 lbs? There really should be 3 "classes" of race car in PCA. Stock (which I probably should more "stock" than we have now with less developed suspensions, but I would settle for current rules), Race Prepared were modded suspensions, stripped interiors, stripped accessories (A/C, etc) stock motors and 10-15% less weight than stock, and the free for all that is GT determined with a simple displacement or displacement/weight formula with some nod to the different power potentials of NA inline 4 bangers vs the flat six based motors.

PCA can live without the complex points based system of the POC, but can stand a little something to close the gap between "stock" and GT.

JCP911S

M758.... the 10% rule has not been approved yet and in my limited experience, most proposed rule changes never make it.... this will surely throw a big rock in the pond for good or ill.

Basically, except for the camber plates and DME, looks to me you could ballast up your car and run in H as a Euro car. The camber plates will pop you into G. But you will still be in the same group and can have fun racing with the H and I class cars..... not like there's prize money on the line.

Bottom line, it is really hard to run multiple series as the rules are always madeningly different... FWIW... looks like the rules in PCA are maddeneningly different from crew to crew...

38D

Why not just run in GT4S and not have to worry about any of this?

MJR911

B/c Joe's competitive spirit wants to run where there are more cars his speed and I don't blame him. But I'm not sure PCA will allow it. I would personally still try to shove it in a stock/prepared class.

M758

Mitch that is part of it, but mostly so I am not rolling road block on the track.

GT4S is often put with GT4R, GT3, and GT2 or GT1 cars aswell as GTC.

So it is often put with fastets cars in PCA. Well my car is really the speed of H or G car and being multiple seconds per lap slower than the next car in group let alone the class make PCA racing not much fun.

I did a race in Las Vegas (my only las vegas event) were I along with 1 other 944 spec were the two slowest cars in entire 50 car field by 5-6 seconds a lap. We could do ok in the corners, but simply did not have the HP to even be close.
There were two race groups. Those with GT4S and higher and those with all the stock classes an GT5 & GT6.

Well had we been in the slower run group we would have been mid pack.

I have been lucky with the Arizona PCA races and had GT4S put in with the stock car classes again where two race groups existed. I had a great time mixed in with H, G, and F cars. THe G & F cars had a hp edge, but we could out drive them in many places so we could at least have some fun. We also were on the pace for the run group. Had we been in the faster run group we again would have been the slowest cars by mulitple seconds.

That is what I really would like to be in class is it at least close to repsenting our speed potential. Competitive or not as I would atleast be put in run group with cars of similar speed.

Personally I think that even if we go moved to GT5 the speed of that class better represents the speed out cars can turn. We still will not be competitive with a well prepped GT5 car, but will be much closer in speed than 2000 lbs 280 hp GT4 car. Remember a 944-spec is 2450 lbs and with 130-140 rwhp.

Tim Pruitt

M758,

I have been racing with PCA in I Stock and NASA 944Cup. I am competitive in I stock but too heavy with way too much crap on the car to win in 944CUP consistently. I have made the following decision.

Set my car up for 944Cup (remove all interior, all heater stuff, all a/c inside with a/c delete, cruise control, sunroof motor, rear hatch release, passenger seat, so forth and so on, total weight with me 180# in car 2650#) and run GT4 or GT5 in the future with PCA.

I can run a full season of 944Cup in the Southeast and race as many PCA events as I want and still have fun. I will use the PCA races as practice for 944CUP. I will not be competitive in GT4 but I can have fun with G, H and fast guys and gals in I cars.

M758

Just hope and pray that GT4S gets put with the slower run group at the Events you go to. If it does then you will have fun G, H, and even some F cars.
At a similar weight I can put a hurting on some less drivers in F cars and have video of sprint race working over a couple G 911 SC's.


However keep and eye on the mirrors if you get put with all the GT1, GT2, GTC and GT3 cars.

Tim Pruitt

If I end up with the GT1 cars etc. I will put one of those slow moving vehicle yield signs and some flashing lights on the back of my car

Carrera51

Water pumper option codes can be found here:

http://www.cantonia.com/option_codes.html

Otto Mechanic

This is indeed the slippery slope I'm trying to avoid; I want to stay stock but it's amazingly hard because knowing what "stock" means is, as you point out, amazingly hard.

My example: I'm replacing my rear dampers and I can use Koni 8040-1035 Sport shocks which are probably as close as you can get to the rear dampers Porsche shipped with the M030 package or I can install the M 30 series oval tracks. The M 30s will accept a coil over but you can use them without. If I put in the coil, it's not "stock", but only if I delete the torsion bars. It might be OK if I put in coils and keep the t-bars.

Why? I guess it's because the way the rules are written, as long as the original springs (really torsion bars) are still in the car, it's considered stock even if I add coils over he dampers. Who would have thought that?

It seems a little capricious but I don't get why? Why not just say no rear coilovers in stock cars? Could you buy them that way? I really am confused because some people have made claims that the 944 S2 Club Sports came with coil over rear Konis. Did they really? Did they also have torsion bars?