M758

Well seems like there is chance I could run my 944-spec in stock class possible H or G in the next year or so.

So lets assume PCA allows 10% weight reduction for prepared mod and 10% weight reduce car with prepared mod as two class jump.

What would I need to make sure my 84 944 meets stock or current prepared rules.

My motor is stock, suspension (except for camber plates) is stock legal. I know camber plates can be pinned or allowed in "prepared".

So few things.
1) DME Chip = Prepared? or Not legal at all. (easy enough for me to replace)

2) Headlights (I assume I need to put them back in)

3) Add a carpet inside the car to cover things (I assume it would work)

4) A/C system - I have it completly removed.. Do I need any of it at all?

5) Heater... my heater core is in the car, but not hooked-up.

6) I still have working power windows and stock door panels so should be good there.

7) rear hatch electric release is gone and sun roof motor is gone. Replaced by fixed latchs to lock shut.

8) Center console is gone.

9) I do have two seats in the car. and could probably ballast to make 2500 lbs without driver.

10) I have a manual steering rack.

So could I make the is car "stock" legal without to much trouble?

Bill L Seifert

Joe

Hope you get an answer to your questions. I would like to run my car in H also. I will be watching with interest.]

Thanks

Bill

MJR911

Glue in some cheap carpet, headlights back in but don't need to work, get rid of the chip, manual steering is ok since you could get it that way in 1983, and put the A/C compressor back in unless it was an option. Was the sunroof an option? If so you can run without the motor, its just all about making weight. the worst that will happen is they'll note it in the logbook... you won't be sent home as long as you make weight.

JCP911S

PCA rules are on the PCA.org website...

Anything that was a factory "option" in your year of mfg can be added or removed. If A/C was an official option, you can rip it out.

Interior must at least visually be as delivered with exception for safety items, and this is enforced.

Rules say that no component not specifically allowed can be removed... this is a really grey area... I have never heard of anybody being DQ'd for not having a heater core or stereo in thier car... or hatch releases or headlight motors for that matter... my guess is as long as the safety and visuals of the car are not impacted and you make weight, nobody is going to gig you on this... but...?????

You can easlily prep your car for H or even G. My guess is you will not be competitive in G because of the HP advantage of the 911, except on very very tight momentum courses like Lime Rock, or in the rain.

BUt you will have fun.

Oddjob

1) DME chip can be replaced as a prepared/progressed modification

2) Headlights will have to go back in

3) Interior needs to be generally complete. Carpet sets, dash, trim panels, headliners, etc. Driver side footwell carpet can be removed and the driver side door panel can be removed in order to install a door bar setup.

4) AC I believe was an option on the early 944s so they can run w/o it. Later cars, it was standard equipment, so they must have it installed.

5) Heater probably does not have to function, but all the components should be there. At least what would be visible without taking anything apart....

6) ok

7) Was the electric hatch release an option on early cars? If so, then you do not have to have the motor. If the car has a sunroof, it should have the motor installed. But again, its kind of hidden behind interior panels and carpeting, so not sure it that will ever be checked for...

8) Need to have the center console.

9) Lower rear seat section needs to be there, the upper seat back can be removed - most cages will not fit with the seat back installed.

10) No problem, power steering was optional on the early cars.

M758

Well A/C option? Well you can get a Factory A/C delete kit? Not sure if that means A/C was an option?

Currently If run the car in G I may be competitive. At my local track my currnet form (may 50-75lbs) under 2500 the car is competitive with some G cars. Not sure what will happen when I make the extra weight. Yes the G cars have a huge hp edge, but knowing that track like I do I know were I can defend against the 911's extra hp.

Even so I rather be in G or H rather than in GT4. Problem is GT4 is often put in run group with much faster cars. When I run in the slower group I can stay with G, H and some F cars too. At least I would be pack rather than a rolling chicane.

Cris Brady

I'm building a 944 spec cup car and I'm planning to run with PCA in I stock. So the above seems clear, the only thing missing is where can you find a definitive list of options. My car is an 89 944 na that has been passed down though many hands so there isn't anything like a sticker or manual with options listed. And telling the scruts at tech, that some guy X on Rennlist said he "thought" it was an option, just wont cut it.

Any pointers on where I could find a list of options for an 89?

JCP911S

Chris, just email one of the scruts like Harry Hall. I've found that they are very helpful in clarifying things like this.

Oddjob

Good to hear that some are helpful. My experience has been the exact opposite. I have had 3 no-replies, and one reply that quoted the rule in the rule book that I was asking for an interpretation on. Volunteers or not, I was very disappointed in the effort and knowledge offered by some of the national officials.

Chris,

For an 89, AC was standard equipment, so you wont be able to remove it. You may be able to get some literature from a local dealer. I got a copy of the option codes, descriptions, and prices for MY 87 from a dealer sales handbook at a local dealer.

Bill L Seifert

Hey all,

The reason I left PCA in 2000 was because of the AC rule. Tom Charlesworth told me in 1998 that an 83 could run without an AC because it was optional. At the Memphis Race in 2000, I was told by a tech guy, that AC was required, even in 1983 cars, unless you had the window sticker that said it was not on your car, by VIN #. I didn't check further, I just quit, and just ran SCCA. I would love to come back, so if anyone has info on the AC rule, that would let me run, please let us know. I am not going to put it back. GT4 is not an option, by the way, at least not for me. I hope noone thinks I am putting the PCA down, I am not, I love the club, I am just not going to do too much to my car to run. I understand if someone thinks gutting a car, and balasting back up to weight is an unfair interpretation of the rules.

By the way, the SCCA is not really kind to us either, the 8v cars should be in ITA, IMO, but they ain't, but my car is already committed to SCCA, so-----.

Bill

1987 944S Race Car
Still have my 83 944 Race Car

Al P.

AC is an interesting problem. From what I've been able to tell even though it was an "option" every car delivered in the US had it and so it is considered a "non-optional option" if that makes any sense. In other words all of the components must be in place, except for the drive belt which, as per the rules can be removed, which of course leaves the problem of driving the alternator.

Don't fixate on removing any particular item from the car the weight savings aren't worth the headaches, e-mails to Lance Weeks and arguments with the local scrut.

M758

The problem is that I would have to re-install all the A/C parts to my 84 chassis as I have them out right now.

That is alot of work for nothing.

Realisticly If had to put the A/C system back in I would just run GT. That with the interior and headlights is just too much crap.

I can deal with interior and headlights and could rig up my heater system, but the A/C is just too complex when combined with all the other crap too.

Hmm... me thinks my 924S 5th gear may also be at issue...

Cris Brady

Thanks, I already knew the A/C was required so I wasn't going there. Thanks for the tip about the dealer.

On another, but related topic, could anybody here with a 944 n/a close at hand, go out and measure the rear hatch area. Length and width is fine. My car is 2 hours away at the cage builder and I want to order some lightweight carpet for the rear hatch area.

Bill L Seifert

Al P.

You are exactly right. If I was building a car now, I would leave AC on. Only with my problem, I had taken the AC off in 1998, and have no idea, where the console to put it back on, is. Also, if I was a guy that prepared a stock car to run, I would be against people like me, that gut the car, and ballast back to weight, to get in. I understand why they would think that is unfair.

Bill

Al P.

stop putting things like that in writing, there could be spys lurking

My personal path down the slippery GT4 slope started with the 924GT rear flairs. "flairs are allowed using factory materials" my thinking was that since the factory had used plastic when they built the 24GT, FRP might be acceptable (it's not) This left me with an H prepared car that has to run in GT4 and as been stated above at Lime Rock in the rain the car shines , the Glen on a nice day is an entirely different story