M758

I have decided it is time to upgrade the cage in my 944-spec.

It is currently 1.75x.095 DOM. I am thinking about a second door bar few gussets and maybe a dash/knee bar. (YES in need the SFI "hard" pading too)

DOOR BARS........
Here is what it looks like now with Option A door bar.

It is the Masking tape and in the rear would attach near the harness cross bar.
The front attaches where the A- piller meets the sil.


This is version B were the front of the bar meets with current door bar.

The big down side here is bar its self may contact the shoulder wing in the seat and I don't want to move the seat as it is in good spot right now.
I don't want to raise the front point too much for space to get in and out.

Also I could just have this added bar welding in 2 parts or cut out the current bar and make two new ones. Opinions on this?

GUSSETS??........
Also do you thing I need/ could use gusset in either of these spots (where the tape is in pic 2)

(note this is "halo bar" designed cage)

KNEE / DASH BAR??........
Do I have space for a "knee bar"? It would run it under the steering wheel and can move the switch gear.


And... one last thing...

HANS Compatibility??........
Harenss angle. Will this work for a HANS or does it need to be moved.



Thanks for your input.

onasled

My 2 cents
Would you consider removing door panels and doing more of a NASCAR style side bar(s)?
Being that your seating position looks too far back and too reclined, you might try and tighten that up a bit and then see if your style #2 side bar would then fit better.
The Hans will bring your head just slightly more forward, but that's typical even with Hans accommodating seats.
Looks like you are OK for the knee bar.
If you can do gussets then by all means go for it as it will certainly beef up the cage.

M758

I have had that seating position for about 5 years and I like it alot. It is actually a bit "close" as compared to my road car position. Recline is actually quite vertical. The seat itself is side mounted using the standard lowest mount position. The rear rests just about on the floor plan. It is mounted without sliders and fixed through the floor so it is not possible to move with easy.

I have glass in my windows and the power windows still work. Ths is important for me since I keep the car outside all the time. I keep the stock door panels to prevent flying glass. I don't really like the NASCAR bars anyway and think they are a false sense of security. I am shooting for a modified X brace as I believe that to be stronger.

Thanks for the input on the Knee bar & Gussets.

timo944

Joe,

I nhsave nascar style bars. i ditched my cage this year for that reason. I think they help, primarily because they are further away from you. Mopre time to absorb impact.

I have the same problem storing the car outdoors (in rainy rainy rainy GA). I made a (cheap) plexiglass window with some door parts to keep it in. So I weas able to gu tthe door and a) put in the nascar bars, and b) lose some weight. The design is made easier by the fact that the rear hoop is ahead of the door post.

Knee bar= YES

This cage was customer built and it's awesome.

Mail me if you'd liek some pics.

Timo

Geo

Joe, I think option 1 is a good idea. Only you can decide on the knee bar (I'm sure you know my opinion of them. If you install one, I'd cut out the tube that is alreayd there and make an X that connects at the top front where the knee bar connects with the a-pillar supports.

Oh, and I'd add the gussets.

David K.

SHAVE YOUR LEGS!

fatbillybob

Buy your HANS first. HANS will mess with your seating position or your neck will ache it you don't change your seat rake. It is very rare that you can use the seat as is with HANS. Then once the seat is in the right postion you can keep or change the harness bar as needed. Also there is no reason you can't weld a plate to the harness bar that holds anchors so you can clip in the shoulder straps at the perfect point. This will allow you to most likely keep the harnes bar as is. This does 3 good things 1- gets the HANS in the right postion. 2- allows for getting shoulder straps made to order with fixed clip in or bolt in anchors , since the typical around the harness bar set-up actually the lock slides and takes longer to take up and lock up. 3- provides a clean anchor point for your seat back brace. I like the x-bar. I can't tell if the sill bar postion but it can be a good thing to have one for extra strength and it is harder for something to get under the "x" depending on where it is. Gussets are good. I'd do the a-piller to the roof hoop and A-piller by the lower part of the windscreen. 3/32" metal to match the .095 tube. I'm against the knee bar but for taking out the dash and making it a dash bar and then putting the dash back in. This also provides the right level to attach a right side net. I'd make the "X" all the way to the shoulder wing height. Is this good or bad for your shoulder to hit here? I don't know but I use a full containment seat anyway so not an issue for me. I would guess you would need at least enough seat clearance to get the SFI padding in there which does not deform and is quite thick like 1.5" of so.

bruinbro

Get yourself a stick of the SFI padding and use it to check clearances for whatever bars/mods you decide on. Also, Mock up the bar(s) with PVC pipe and check your ingress/egress, again using the SFI padding. How about Option A and move the attachment point of the existing door bar down to the same pont as the Option A bar attachment?

Bruinbro

RedlineMan

Hey Joe;

- I'd take out the existing door bar and do A. I would not bitch if you stole "my" sill tube idea and made it extra safe!



Gusset #1 - ABSOLUTLEY, POSITIVELY!!!! Yours would squash as is. A fairly substantial (long) gusset would offer you a great improvement here. I'd make them much longer and position them differently than these...



Gusset #2 - Not a bad idea, since you are probably not allowed to attach to the a-pillar. Again, I'd make them fairly long.

Knee bar - Kinda close there. Hips move about 4-8" forward in a crash! If your side hoops followed the door aperture more closely in front (behind dash) I'd say go for it.

HANS - It would have helped if you tightened the belts for the pic! The bar looks just a little low. FBB gave you some really good info there. Definitely get your HANS before making any other decisions, since it is the foundation from which everything else must work.

analogmike

Hi,

Neither of your door bar ideas is SCCA GT class legal. I don't remember the exact wording but the added angled bar needs to intersect the existing horizontal bar near the center. I don't think it's possible with how low your horizontal bar is. Always best to build to the toughest spec, then you can race with any group. See the SCCA CGRs online to find the exact info.

macnewma

Redline, down the road when I start racing, you will be building my cage. That is some great workmanship.

Geo

I wouldn't consider SCCA GT specs the toughest specs. The SCCA cage rules are a mish-mash unfortunately and there is little continuity between the categories. Thankfully that fact has been recognized and it's my understanding that it's being looked at. Quite frankly, IMHO cage specs for each category should not be left up to the advisory committees. They really need to be decided upon by the Competition Racing Board and IMHO the rules should be substantially the same (except perhaps tubing diameter and thickness, but not necessarily) between categories. Also IMHO there should be some allowances for different construction details.

tifosiman

Damn, that is nice.

M758

Ok,

Thanks for the advice.

Looks like I will first get a HANS. Try it out and make sure my seating position is comfortable for it.
From the FIA and hans material i have seen you want a 0 to 20 deg down angle from the top of shoulders (with HANS) to the harness bar. It looks like it will be there, but should put the HANS on first then measure.

Re A - pillar welding. 944-spec changed the rules to allow cages welded to the A piller, but I don't want to do that as other classes don't allow this and I'd rather have the car legal for them too. Cutting the cage is not easy mod to change for each class I try to run.
Then add in door bars and gussets. Based on the 4-8" of hip movement... No Knee bar.


For the door bar I will do option A. I may or may not move up the forward attachment of the existing door bar. I will talk to my cage builder on that. It may depend on how much space he needs to work in there and may be easier to just start over on the doors.

QUESTION...
Can I get 1.75 OD PVC pipe (or similar) from Home Depot, Lowes, etc for mock up purposes?

Again thanks

Geo

Joe, to be completely honest, if you're not going to install an X I wouldn't worry about cutting out the current horizontal tube. I'd personally gusset the hell out of that connection. I'd weld a plate to either side of the small triangle created between the a-pillar support, the horizontal tube, and the new diagonal tube. Then I put have a gusset installed at the intersection of the diagonal and the horizontal on the top side of the horizontal. That will make for an incredibly strong joint there and it's far more important that the diagonal meet the bast of the a-pillar support than it is for the horizontal to.