fatbillybob

Have any of you guys used a manual tire changer? It seems that breaking a bead itakes huge force and seting a tire on a rim doesn't look to easy either. Can it really be done with a manual unit with those 4 foot cheater bars or am I dreaming? I ask besause going to tire shops for racers like me is just a real PITA!

RedlineMan

YES IT IS!

Forget the manual thing. it DOES take a lot to get tires on and off unless you have the right stuff. Get a tire machine. Larry got one not too long ago.

Kurt R

Sure, I've changed tires manually. On the truck, the trailer, even the street car when I've had a flat. All it takes is a cheap bead breaker and a couple of tire spoons. Same way my dad taught me, back when cars had tubes. But track tires? Forget it. The combination of low sidewall profiles and stiff sidewalls make it pretty difficult, if not impossible. I'm planning on picking up a machine after the new garage is built.

Professor Helmüt Tester

Some current DOT race tires, like Kumho 710's, will stall a good modern mounting machine if the 'drop well' in the wheel isn't deep enough. Those bishes are stiff.

A manual changer would work if we were still running on bias ply tires, or old Yok 001's or 008's, but no sane person would attempt to change a modern race tire with 'tyre levers' and a bead breaker. If you see somebody attempting it, get a camcorder. And lots of tape. Lots. We want to watch.

NetManiac

Any more info on this Professor? Like any tricks to get them on?

My last track event was ruined because the tire guy could not get my V710's mounted (245/35/18 on 8.5x18" CCW wheels). Of course it was the Hoosier rep and lets just say his a reputation...

NetManiac

I am interested in getting my own setup to mount and balance tires. Maybe not manual. But something. Seems like it would pay for itself pretty quickly. Any ideas on where one might look for inexpensive equipment?

Professor Helmüt Tester

Leave them out in the sun to get hot for a couple of hours before you try to mount them. Use lots of 'bead lube', that black greasy stuff in a tub, along with a second person to hold a bar on the upper wheel bead as the machine rolls the tire bead under the rim. You need to be a gorilla. 35's ? Yeesh, 50's were bad enough. Can't imagine trying to mount 35's.

I have a deal with a local shop - he gets to borrow one of my trailers when he needs it, I get to use his tire equipment. I probably mount 50-100 tires/yr. there. Never had a wrestling match like when I was mounting ~12 710's last month...even worse than when we managed to stuff a 14" tire on a 15" wheel about a decade ago.

Tom W

Mike: If you run into Kim (WreckMeOtter) at any events talk to him. I'm pretty sure he bought a machine that's in his garage to compliment his wheel collection...

4master

OOOkaayyyy... I am definitely in the minority here. I have been using a manual tire changer and static balancer for the last 6 months or so without any problems. I use it to change Kuhmo V710's, Toyo RA1's, and Avon R compounds, all 225/50-16 on phone dials, Fuchs, and Borbet's (which have proven to be the toughest).

I started doing my own changes to save the $70 for a change and balance and have had no problems. It definitely takes a certain technique, but once learned is not too bad. Plus, it allows me to swap the tire on the rim to increase the life of the tire. As mentioned earlier, lube is a must but the correct technique is the most important.

One caveat - if you have expensive aftermarket rims (Fikse, BBS, Forgeline, etc...) I would tread very carefully (pun intended, sorry). It would be very easy to scar the crap out of nice rims using the manual system.

PS. I paid $25 bucks for the changer and $35 bucks for the static balancer.

Cheers,

Scott Foremaster/1985.5 I class 944/#909/ Half-Shafted Racing

carreracup21

I was lucky and found a guy out in the country that will change my tires out and balance for $7.50. per tire. Not bad ehh ? More than not though, I get them taken care of at the track during a race weekend at the usual exhorbitent rate of $80 for 4.

fatbillybob

4master,

What is your technique? Also, have you found the static balance just as good as dynamic balance for race tires?


I have looked for a cheap machine and the cheap ones are real POS made in China. The cheapest chinese machine is from harbor freight and tool. Half their stuff breaks after a few uses so the next best thing is to buy a cheap used machine of a decent brand like Coats etc... The other problem with tire machines is that they have a huge footprint in the garage. My problem with tire monkeys is not the cost but I have to watch them like a hawk. I request waterless lube they use soap. They can read the word "out" and mount the tires backwards. You know just plain old don't give a rat's A. So I thought for the couple dozen tires I mount a year the manual would be the hot ticket. Well it does not sound like it is. Rennlist has spoken! Thanks Guys.

Larry Herman

Like John said, I bought a tire machine and balancer, and I do about 40 to 50 tires a year.


Yes it is made in China, but it is a new design, top-of-the-line unit and is very well built. I don't know if I would recommend it for a high volume shop, but for limited use it is great. If you are careful, you can do the toughest tires without scratching the wheels. I do my buddy's (and my) Pirelli race slicks on 18" wheels (talk about stiff sidewalls) and what has taken a well know race shop 1 & 1/2 hours to do, I have done in 30 minutes. No regrets here!

4master

fatbillybob,
The static balancer has worked great...for the track. I would not use static balance for street because of harmonics and other such stuff but for the track, I have been most pleased. I have never noticed a tire being out of balance and my tire wear has been very even (yes, my alignment is good and the car is corner weighted and balanced - which is quite necesary for even tire wear).
Yeah, the pieces I have, came from the store you mentioned and yes, they are one step above caveman quality, but you get what you pay for and I paid diddly-poo (relatively speaking). If it was in my budget, I would probably opt to buy a used tire changer and balancer but I want a lift first.
I must admit I am a neophyte at this, so I don't want to come off as some kind of expert. To date, I have dismounted, mounted, and balanced five or six sets of tires and after a few of my buddy's gave me a couple of tips, I have been very happy with the whole deal.
You'll break a sweat on a warm day. Dismounting is a snap and takes me less than 5 minutes per wheel. Mounting is harder and probably takes me about 10 minutes per wheel. I made a slight modification to my balancer so now it takes me about 5 minutes to balance a wheel. So all told, I guess it takes me 60 - 75 minutes to do a set (dismount, mount, and balance).
If you do go the poor man's route, you really need to anchor the changer to your floor. There are other ways but having it anchored allows you to put some torque on that sucker.
Anyhow, it works for me. It's one way, not the best way, not the only way, just one way. If you decide to get one and are really interested in hearing how I do it, email me at 4master@bellsouth.net and I'll give you my cell number.

Cheers,

Scott Foremaster/1985.5 I class 944/#909/Half-Shafted Racing

jrotsaert

Larry,
If you don't me asking, how much does a set-up like your cost?
Like you I go through about 8 to 10 sets a year (slicks and track) and I have 4 cars so it could be great to have
JM

Larry Herman

I am the guinea pig for the local distributor (Callahan Products) and so I get to try what he gets first. I like the tire machine a lot, but am waiting for the next generation balancer, which should be here in a few weeks. The balancer in the picture works fine, but is really setup for truck wheels, and so the measurements for the wheel have to be put in manually. It does get them perfect though. I think that the complete setup pictured here is about $4,500 FOB Phila. BTW he has a great twin post lift, as good as a Rotary IMHO.