Cris Brady

This is primarily directed to RedlineMan who I think has the most experience with these seats. Can you tell me what the difference is between the Ultrashield Road Race Super Seat and the Lightweight RR seat with Halo?

From the catalog it looks to me like the only diff is the LtWt seat the cover is separate and it's $500 cheaper. I assume there are some more substantial differences.

RedlineMan

WAY!

They are QUITE different.

RR/SS

- Built of .100" 5052 alloy.
- Also has a .250" machined exoskeleton to reinforce the rib and shoulder area.
- Full length containment shoulder "fences" (perpendicular to the seat back).
- Custom spec build is included in the price.
- 5-6-7 point compatible

It is exceedingly stiff, but also as a result heavier than the Lightweight. Approx. 28lbs or so. This is a VERY good seat, the best that I have seen. About $1000.

LW/RR

- Choice of .80 or .100 5052 alloy.
- Reinforced at the ribs.
- Shoulder "wings" instead of "fences" (not full containment).

This seat is moderately stiff as alloy seats go. It is much lighter than the RR/SS at about 19lbs. They will custom build but it is $75-100 extra. A nice seat, but I am not sold on helmet halos without shoulder containment.

They both have removeable covers. The RR/SS is the only way to go if you are serious. An excellent product. The key that most people are not aware of is that Ultrashield offers both 10 and 20 degree seats. I have not found 20 degree to work at all well in Porsches.

Rennlisters FatBillyBob and Mitch236 have bought these seats on my recommendation and are quite pleased. I put one in a customer car, and wish I had one instead of my Kirkey RR Deluxe. I have way more than the extra $350 in trying to MAKE (and I do mean MAKE!) the Kirkey fit (Loooooong story).

Cris Brady

Excellent John,

Thanks for the report. Looks like the SS is the way to go. Thanks again.

fatbillybob

I love the RRSS thanks to John's rec's. . Compared to my OMP carbon shell the RRSS is a **** brick house! It is one stiff sucker and looks basically bulletproof. It is extremely well built with great TIG welds. I bought the 10 degree and it fits well in my car. The covers are really durable looking and the fit is absolutely better than my three piece suits. I have never had a seat that fit so well. I can hardly wait to hit the track in it. I'm small about 5'5" and 125 lbs and my seat weights in at 21 lbs which is not so far off from the OMP shell with the OMP aluminium seat rails and the extra padding I needed to get my HANS to have clearance to the back of my headrest and the extra pads I needed to try and keep my butt from sliding around in the seat. You see the RRSS can be mounted directly to my fabbed up seat mountings while my OMP had to be mounted to the OMP rails which was mounted to the car. The RRSS gives you the closest feel to that single seat fully contained monoque feel and IMO enhances HANS function. You may need to use a removeable steering wheel for ingress/egress. The cockpit gets a little tighter with full containment seat/doorbars/nets etc...

Here is the skeleton of my seat:

fatbillybob

John,

You need to contact Ultrashield to get some commisions on your sales!!

ngoldrich

John,

I am also seriously considering the RR/SS. I currently have a Recaro racer pro with the wings but I dont like the amount of flex with it.

BillK935 has a RR/SS and had problems with his hans fitting and had to do extensive mods and rewelding & fab to get it to fit.

I am approx 5'11 and 170 and wondering if I will also have fitment problems with the hans...

Thx,
Norm

RedlineMan

Hmmm...

I remember him posting that, Norm, but I had thought Bill's seat was a Kirkey. What say, Bill?

In any event, HANS problems with seats are generally the fault of seat back angle. If you have your seat very upright, and then add a HANS, there will not be room for it behind your head and it will push your head forward. You can usually solve this with a slightly increased declination of the seat back.

For what it's worth, I have my Kirkey RR Deluxe very upright, and solved this HANS issue by taking some of the foam out of the headrest portion of the seat cover.

ngoldrich

John,

Thanks. Bills is definitely the ultrashield. I looked at it closely and he sent me pics of all the fabbing that had to be done....

Bill can elaborate more...

Thx,
Norm

Cris Brady

I'm very interested in hearing what Bill has to say. I'm running a HANS and that's one of the driving reasons I looking at a full containment seat.

RedlineMan

Hey;

I recall the thread, Bill's problems, and all the pics he posted on the subject of his seat mods.

The problem stems from not having room for the HANS between your head and the seat back. If your seat is mounted very upright - so that your head is very close or resting on the head rest - then obviously there is no room for the HANS collar.

I have not specifically tried a HANS with the RR/SS. However, it seems to me that this is simply a matter of getting the seat back inclination correct, or perhaps more precisely, adding yet another aspect to the fixing of this angle.

There are indeed many parameters to consider when fixing the angle of recline. You have steering reach, headroom, and seat base angles to consider when deciding what position to mount your seat in. All of these must be played off of eachother to find the right compromise.

It seems to me - from my rail-bird view - that Bill's solution (or that of his fabricator) was rather radical, and really unnecessary. While I was not there and do not know everything involved in his particular install, it seems to me it would have been much easier to revise the seat mounting position than to mod the seat.

I will drag out my HANS this afternoon, have a sit in the customer car with the RR/SS in it, see how things shape up, and report back. Given my own experience, I really can't imagine it will be a big problem, and would only require modest tweaks to the seat position to correct.

fatbillybob

Cris,

FWIW I have HANS and fit the RRSS just fine remember the seat is custom. Part of the order process is to tell Ultrashield you are using HANS. They know you need extra shoulder height and headrest clearance. These are NASCAR seats and they know HANS is required. I think they punch back the headrest area too as part of the custom deal. In fact I am using the HANS and the 4 shoulder strap system that has even more potential mounting problems as the HANS with just 3" sholder straps. Ultrashield will also custom your shoulder strap holes based on your shoulder height as they measure plus the need for HANS. By the time I get strapped in and compressd by my belts a bit I estimate that I will be right in the middle of my shoulder belt holes as the belts depart the seat... with proper angles of course. I do have an advantage as I am the fabricator of my custom cage etc... That said I have played with many seat mountings and I believe John is absolutely right that with seat rake adjustment you can get everything to fit regardless of seat in a very high percentage of times. I also think the 10 degree is the way to go and it is easier to rake the seat to get the comfort that most people like which is about 20 degrees or so. Also, tilting back a 10 degree seat so that the seat bottom leading edge is tillted up away from the floor gives you extra support fore and aft in a crash vs. a nice 20 degree back rest and seat bottom parallel with the floor. I also like a bit more support right behind the knees. My only possible complaint with the RRSS is that the fore/aft length of my seat does not support under my knees as much I am used to in my OMP carbon seat that is really too big dispite being the smallest available to me. I have not driven the seat so I'm not sure if this is an issue. There could be a reason for being short. The thigh bolsters are very tall 8" at the leading edge (reduces your spill out). So perhaps the seat is shorter for egress. Aso, there is an additional knee bolster you can buy which may effect this dimension. I may be just used to a big seat. I'm not sure. But you may want to compare this dimension against what you are currently using.

RedlineMan

Hey;

FBB has REALLY added some sage points here. It would behoove all to pay close attention to what he has offered here.

The problem he mentions about 20 degree seats rendering the base horizontal is the prime problem I have seen with these seats. I am not aware of any cars that do not have declined seat mounting holes to start with. This gives you roughly 10 degrees to start with. Add 20 degrees and you're looking up at the cieling.

The only thing you can do to incline the seat back and get your reach correct is to slam the front of the seat into the floor and raise the back of the seat. If you are tall, you will run out of headroom quickly. You also will end up with a seat base that is horizontal, and this is a dangerous situation in terms of anti-submarine retention. Ya just gotta have some butt cup going on to stay in the seat!

This is exactly what I have run into trying to get Kirkey RR Deluxe seats in Porsches. The "long story" I mentioned previously was actually cutting a wedge out of the sides of my RR Deluxe and rewelding it to decrease the angle of the seat base relative to the back. I did this by simply measuring the free space between the seat base and my thighs. Quite inronically, when I measured the new back-to-base angle, I had decreased it by exactly... TEN DEGREES.
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So I did indeed drag out the helmet and HANS and give the RR/SS car a sit today. This seat was set for no H&N restraint. As I anticipated, I had about the same clearance issue with the Ultrashield as with my Kirkey. I need about another inch. With the Kirkey, I simply dug out some of the foam from the thickly padded head rest. You do not have that luxury with the Ultrashield, but the interference of not having enough room for the HANS collar should be fairly easy to correct with a slight declination of the seat back.

Initially, the halos are very close and a bit confining as you wiggle and squirm to get the shoulder straps positioned on the HANS. However, once everything was set and cinched, the effect was very comforting. You are definitely wrapped in a very protective feeling cacoon. This setup would seem to very much mitigate a lot of the potential for latteral movement to slip the belts off the HANS, as there simply is not much room for such movement.

I am quite confident that careful positioning of the seat will render good results for HANS users.

By the by... I have no connection with Ultrashield. I just think they are on top of this stuff pretty well.

Cris Brady

On another note, I was looking at FBB's picture of his naked seat and the 3 holes i the bottom. I assume that you are going with a 7 point belt setup. I thought the correct position for the 2 rearward holes was a lot further back, closer to the holes where the lap belts exit. The belts are supposed to go under and wrap around your thighs, making like a cradle. Is this the standard location for the 7 points?

Not criticising, just trying to get educated.

RedlineMan

Hey Chris;

You've missed our other harness threads!

Depending on where your butt lands, those holes look to be PERFECT. Note that the outer two are behind and beside the single sub hole. These should allow the slightly rearward mounting of an "intermediate cradle" double sub to be positioned perfectly; about 10-20 degrees aft the extended "spine line." This gives a good amount of direct downward linear pull on the lap belt, and also a moderate amount of cradle effect of the hips without cutting in.

You may also note the angle of the holes. This allows a splayed mounting of the sub tails so that these belts can be positioned to lay flat on the inside of the thighs, further reducing possible discomfort.

Yep... I think Ultrashield has this figured out!

Cris Brady

Sorry, John.

But I didn't miss the threads, but you have to admit they were long and involved and at times confusing And at the time I had a composite seat, not suitable for cutting new holes, so I must have read it without my full attention regarding the 7pt setup.

Which is why I asked this time, since it didn't jibe with what I remembered.

I'm better now. You can stop hitting the wall with your head ...