Sanjeevan

I was scanning through the qualifying times for group C cars ( As mine is in group C), I see a Red Johnson doing 1.41 with his 96 993 RS club sport for 2005. The next one is 1.47.3, O.K that's not totally unusual.

The mean time appears to be ~1.48ish, but, in 03 I think there is bunch of guy's doing ~1.41, yet in 02 the best timing was 1.50 + ????. It's not like the 993 RS c.s. is always dominating, at other tracks it's slower than some C group cars. So, why the difference of almost 10 seconds between 02 and 03, did the rules change between 02 and 03 ? and is it usual to find a difference of +6 sec. between cars in a stock class.

Yeah, it certainly looks like I've got way too much time in my hands, but hey, at least this would'nt result in me putting more money into the car.

JC in NY

The best explanation would be rain.

JCP911S

My guess is track condition and weather.M-O was kind of cool with intermittant rain if I remember.

Sanjeevan

D'oh,.... THE RAIN

edit: But, who is this Red Johnson,....and is the 993 RS clubsport such a superior car.,...is it just the driver.

38D

Unfortunately, you have to know the driver & the car to make sense of the times. Take the 2003 WG race. In D, Jeff Burger won, with Scotto 2nd. They did times of 2:10.x. This year, the best in D was a 2:11.9, and Scotto ran 2:06 in the same car. The problem is that unless you know that the 964 Euro Cups moved to GTC1 and that they now run slicks, you might jump to conclusions, the only correct one of which would be that Scotto and Burger are still fast!

Sanjeevan

Colin, so what's the sense of PCA groups, especially "stock" groups, if the cars with in the same group can be so different that the times are so far apart,...to me 6 sec. with in the same group in the same race is a lot. At the level of club racing, in stock class could it be just the driver ?, I would think, if the cars are similar,...the talented driver may be able to get around a full second or two faster,..but 6 sec., I was surprised to see that.

Greg Fishman

The level of talent in PCA is very broad. In C it has ranged from semi pro drivers to first timers and all levels in between. 6 seconds is not unusual.

Come to a Club Race and you can get a better grip on the scene first hand. Putnam Park July 16-17 would be a good choice. Lots of Ohio based drivers there.

M758

Wrong...

In 944-spec which is has much more closely controled rule base I have seen differences of about 6 seconds from those on top form to those just learning.

Driver skills are hugely important. Once drivers get the hang of things then 2-3 sec gap is not uncommon until these guys "figure out" how to go fast. Some never do and other do, but still can't get with in 1 second.


Now throw in the fact that PCA stock class cars are not closely controled as a spec group and you get greater variations in lap times.

swftiii

Jeeva,

I think Greg addressed your question, but from my experience and belief it is more the driver than the car when it comes to track driving. There have been plenty of times where I have passed far superior cars with new drivers and been passed by 'slower' cars with better drivers.

Yes, car and setup can help and affect the time differential, but you would be very surprised that a 3-5 second lap differential could easily be seen with driving talent if not more.

Just my humble thoughts...

-Skip

38D

And in the D enduro at Watkins Glen, I got to "compete" against pro driver Cory F. (well, I wasn't much competition).

Anyway, while 6 seconds is a lot in pro terms, it's not that much for us posers. For example, going from green in DE to a the best club racers, there's probably over a 60 second differential at Watkins Glen. I would guess that most people in Green run 3:00-2:40, Yellow ~2:50-2:28, White 2:38-2:20, Black 2:35-2:18, Red 2:30-2:15, club racers in D class 2:20-2:11, top GT1 cars 1:55s. Point is, 6 seconds is not that much given the wide level of experience you see even in club racing (heck, I've only done 3 races, though I did have ~100 DE days before that).

Larry Herman

Does my 2:09 flat count?

38D

No . See you in D soon .

Seriously, at a normal DE, how many people even in Red are going faster than 2:15...two maybe three?

TD in DC

$%^&%^&* Colin. Every time I see your avatar I lose about 30 seconds while I stare like I am hypnotized

jerome951

Jeeva,

A lot of it depends on who shows up for the race. If Rod Johnson had shown up on '02 and had been in C w/ his RS, I would expect his times to be similar to '05.

6 seconds is very a common difference between the well-prepared (and driven) and lightly-upgraded (and moderately-well driven) cars. True 'stock' cars would be ~10 sec off the pace at a track like Mid-O.
Case in point. In '04, I ran my stock 951S in E and my best time was ~1:51 (lead cars in E were turning 1:42). I have a reasonable amount of track time at Mid-O and don't think I could have shaved more than a second or 2 off my lap times.
Over the winter I 'upgraded' the suspension in my car. At this year's race I qualified at 1:45 while the leaders were around 1:41. Of course, there were guys in E with stock cars who were still running 1:50s.

Sanjeevan

Thanks for taking the time to reveal some of the mysteries of PCA racing, Greg I will try to make it to Putnam this yr., otherwise at least to M.O next yr. Jerome, the reason I was asking the question is I was surprised to see suspension was "free" in stock class. I was suspecting equipment difference to make some difference.