Responsibility Driving Someones Car?
#1
Responsibility Driving Someones Car?
Can you guys give me your feedback on what you feel the rules/responsibilities are when you are asked to drive someone elses car. Please break it down by DE and Racing.
DE
Normally drive at 7/10. There should be no reasonable chance of even dropping a wheel off here. If they ask for more, should you say there is some risk and then maybe 9/10 in safe sections, back to 7/10 or maybe 8/10 in dangerous areas? If you damage the car (and it's your fault), do you offer to pay?
Racing
If you damage the car, I don't think you are required to pay, but again, if it is my fault, I would feel responsible to pay.
DE
Normally drive at 7/10. There should be no reasonable chance of even dropping a wheel off here. If they ask for more, should you say there is some risk and then maybe 9/10 in safe sections, back to 7/10 or maybe 8/10 in dangerous areas? If you damage the car (and it's your fault), do you offer to pay?
Racing
If you damage the car, I don't think you are required to pay, but again, if it is my fault, I would feel responsible to pay.
#2
For DE, I simply do not let others drive my car. Nor do I ask to drive someone else's car. This policy makes the entire issue moot. If you wreck your car, I do not feel obligated to pay.
#3
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Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera
For DE, I simply do not let others drive my car. Nor do I ask to drive someone else's car. This policy makes the entire issue moot.
I know someone who has borrowed a car for DE. Before he drove he and the owner agreed on the value of the car and he wrote him a check. Fortunately nothing happened, although he did manage a pretty good spin in it. I've had a number of offers to co-drive or test someone elses car on track. I always turn them down. I have had co-drivers in AX, but I won't do that again either. Clutches, pads, tires, etc for one driver are just too damn expensive as it is, and it s a good way to ruin a friendship.
#4
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I think the gentlemanly thing is to fix or repair regardless if it was a DE or race. Now if the fault was the owner's because he didn't change brake pads before they wore down or similar then that is a different story.
Mechanical is also a sticky area, it would be hard to blame the driver if a wheel bearing died but what do you do if a clutch explodes or a lifter breaks, etc.
I drove a friend's car in a race last year (Thanks Eric!) and I would have taken car of any body damage, or mechanical issues I caused. Thankfully the car is in good shape and nothing of the sort happened.
Long story but my street car was damaged by a friend at a DE. About $12k worth, plus diminshed value. My insurance had to pay as the insurance follows the car, even though he pushed to have his insurance pay for the damage. He paid the deductible and my increase in premium over the next three years. I could have pressed the issue and made him pay without getting my insurance involved but he was not denying responsibility and was a friend so I let the insurance pay the claim.
CC,
I would be leary to let just anyone drive your car, the power level is much higher than most would be accustomed to. It is also worth more money than many people could pay out of pocket.
Mechanical is also a sticky area, it would be hard to blame the driver if a wheel bearing died but what do you do if a clutch explodes or a lifter breaks, etc.
I drove a friend's car in a race last year (Thanks Eric!) and I would have taken car of any body damage, or mechanical issues I caused. Thankfully the car is in good shape and nothing of the sort happened.
Long story but my street car was damaged by a friend at a DE. About $12k worth, plus diminshed value. My insurance had to pay as the insurance follows the car, even though he pushed to have his insurance pay for the damage. He paid the deductible and my increase in premium over the next three years. I could have pressed the issue and made him pay without getting my insurance involved but he was not denying responsibility and was a friend so I let the insurance pay the claim.
CC,
I would be leary to let just anyone drive your car, the power level is much higher than most would be accustomed to. It is also worth more money than many people could pay out of pocket.
#5
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Here is a good thread from last year that addresses instructors driving students cars:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...structor+drive
BSR (Summit Point) wants us to drive the student's car a few laps if it is their first time. I never drive above 5/10ths and just show the line and check the brakes for stopping power. Sometimes the car is a Hyundai. From what I remember NASA does not want us to drive the student's car and I can't remember if Mazda Driver's does or not as both of my students last time were experienced. I also tell them that no matter what I am not touching the steering wheel so if we go off it's all on them...and they wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...structor+drive
BSR (Summit Point) wants us to drive the student's car a few laps if it is their first time. I never drive above 5/10ths and just show the line and check the brakes for stopping power. Sometimes the car is a Hyundai. From what I remember NASA does not want us to drive the student's car and I can't remember if Mazda Driver's does or not as both of my students last time were experienced. I also tell them that no matter what I am not touching the steering wheel so if we go off it's all on them...and they wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
#7
Race Director
Don't drive someone else's car unless you're prepared to pay.
IMHO, DE or racing doesn't matter. If you're driving, you're responsible unless you have agreed to other arrangements or the incident can be reasonably clearly shown to be the result of the owner's neglect or otherwise the owner's clear responsibility.
When I was borrowing a race car, my sister asked me what happens if I ball up my friend's race car - did he get my road car of the same type? I told her my responsibility was to return the car the same way I received it. In a nutshell, that's the way it is. If you cannot accept it, don't drive someone else's car.
IMHO, DE or racing doesn't matter. If you're driving, you're responsible unless you have agreed to other arrangements or the incident can be reasonably clearly shown to be the result of the owner's neglect or otherwise the owner's clear responsibility.
When I was borrowing a race car, my sister asked me what happens if I ball up my friend's race car - did he get my road car of the same type? I told her my responsibility was to return the car the same way I received it. In a nutshell, that's the way it is. If you cannot accept it, don't drive someone else's car.
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#9
No driving someone else's car unless you can pay for it if you wad it up. I've had offers when I was having car trouble at the track but elected not to do so as it just did not feel right to me (personally). YMMV.
#10
Thanks guys, that is what I thought. Greg, your racing Eric's car was a particular instance I was curious about. And thanks, I am very cautious with my car.
Here is my problem, I really want someone to "lay down the law" in my car so I can see the data. That will require at least 9.5/10's. I can't ask someone to drive my car hard (Norm, are you listening ) and then make them pay if they break it. If I'm Norm, at best, I say "I'll do it, but I take no responsibility". In reality, I would still feel guilty if I smashed someone’s car and I would end up paying for it.
So here is my thinking. Get to a track Norm (please ) knows well and is safe (Putnam sounds good). Say, drive the **** out of my car everywhere but turn 9 and 10 (bank and wall) and say I’ll cover everything else. I will give him a full session to work up to hot-foot speed and then ask him to burry it for one or two laps when he is ready. Reasonable?
The reason I want Norm is his car is very similar and he is damn good.
Here is my problem, I really want someone to "lay down the law" in my car so I can see the data. That will require at least 9.5/10's. I can't ask someone to drive my car hard (Norm, are you listening ) and then make them pay if they break it. If I'm Norm, at best, I say "I'll do it, but I take no responsibility". In reality, I would still feel guilty if I smashed someone’s car and I would end up paying for it.
So here is my thinking. Get to a track Norm (please ) knows well and is safe (Putnam sounds good). Say, drive the **** out of my car everywhere but turn 9 and 10 (bank and wall) and say I’ll cover everything else. I will give him a full session to work up to hot-foot speed and then ask him to burry it for one or two laps when he is ready. Reasonable?
The reason I want Norm is his car is very similar and he is damn good.
#12
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Originally Posted by ColorChange
I can't ask someone to drive my car hard (Norm, are you listening ) and then make them pay if they break it. If I'm Norm, at best, I say "I'll do it, but I take no responsibility". In reality, I would still feel guilty if I smashed someone’s car and I would end up paying for it.
However, if it were racing your car for you, for a $30 trophy, well racing is racing and all bets are off!
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Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
#13
Race Director
CC, as always, alternate prior personal arrangements always apply. I recently did something similar to what you're looking for someone to do.
But, I also agree with Larry. Most stand-up sorts won't walk away from a problem and toss you the keys and say "your problem" so most will still be rather circumspect at the prospect.
But, I also agree with Larry. Most stand-up sorts won't walk away from a problem and toss you the keys and say "your problem" so most will still be rather circumspect at the prospect.
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Originally Posted by ColorChange
Here is my problem, I really want someone to "lay down the law" in my car so I can see the data. That will require at least 9.5/10's. I can't ask someone to drive my car hard (Norm, are you listening ) and then make them pay if they break it. If I'm Norm, at best, I say "I'll do it, but I take no responsibility". In reality, I would still feel guilty if I smashed someone’s car and I would end up paying for it.
#15
Rjay, I am curious on both questions, but I think I agree with you on the Norm issue. If I am asking him to do it ... I am "hiring" him for a job so the risk is mine.