ColorChange

Can you guys give me your feedback on what you feel the rules/responsibilities are when you are asked to drive someone elses car. Please break it down by DE and Racing.

DE
Normally drive at 7/10. There should be no reasonable chance of even dropping a wheel off here. If they ask for more, should you say there is some risk and then maybe 9/10 in safe sections, back to 7/10 or maybe 8/10 in dangerous areas? If you damage the car (and it's your fault), do you offer to pay?

Racing
If you damage the car, I don't think you are required to pay, but again, if it is my fault, I would feel responsible to pay.

Capt. Carrera

For DE, I simply do not let others drive my car. Nor do I ask to drive someone else's car. This policy makes the entire issue moot. If you wreck your car, I do not feel obligated to pay.

RJay

Ditto. Theres a lot more that can go wrong for either party than just a basic slide off and wreck. What happens if the person borrowing the car is minding their own business and somone hits them? What happens if something breaks? The engine throws a rod for example? And on the other side what happens if the car experiences severe brake fade and the borrower crashes and gets hurt? Are you guaranteeing the drivabilty of the car and its worthiness to do performance driving? And if you're fortunate enough to live in a state where your car is actually insured on track on your street policy, I'd have to wonder if you'd still be covered for a driver not listed on your policy.

I know someone who has borrowed a car for DE. Before he drove he and the owner agreed on the value of the car and he wrote him a check. Fortunately nothing happened, although he did manage a pretty good spin in it. I've had a number of offers to co-drive or test someone elses car on track. I always turn them down. I have had co-drivers in AX, but I won't do that again either. Clutches, pads, tires, etc for one driver are just too damn expensive as it is, and it s a good way to ruin a friendship.

Greg Fishman

I think the gentlemanly thing is to fix or repair regardless if it was a DE or race. Now if the fault was the owner's because he didn't change brake pads before they wore down or similar then that is a different story.
Mechanical is also a sticky area, it would be hard to blame the driver if a wheel bearing died but what do you do if a clutch explodes or a lifter breaks, etc.

I drove a friend's car in a race last year (Thanks Eric!) and I would have taken car of any body damage, or mechanical issues I caused. Thankfully the car is in good shape and nothing of the sort happened.

Long story but my street car was damaged by a friend at a DE. About $12k worth, plus diminshed value. My insurance had to pay as the insurance follows the car, even though he pushed to have his insurance pay for the damage. He paid the deductible and my increase in premium over the next three years. I could have pressed the issue and made him pay without getting my insurance involved but he was not denying responsibility and was a friend so I let the insurance pay the claim.

CC,
I would be leary to let just anyone drive your car, the power level is much higher than most would be accustomed to. It is also worth more money than many people could pay out of pocket.

forklift

Here is a good thread from last year that addresses instructors driving students cars:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...structor+drive

BSR (Summit Point) wants us to drive the student's car a few laps if it is their first time. I never drive above 5/10ths and just show the line and check the brakes for stopping power. Sometimes the car is a Hyundai. From what I remember NASA does not want us to drive the student's car and I can't remember if Mazda Driver's does or not as both of my students last time were experienced. I also tell them that no matter what I am not touching the steering wheel so if we go off it's all on them...and they wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

TT Gasman

Where's Ghetto Racer when you need him...

Geo

Don't drive someone else's car unless you're prepared to pay.

IMHO, DE or racing doesn't matter. If you're driving, you're responsible unless you have agreed to other arrangements or the incident can be reasonably clearly shown to be the result of the owner's neglect or otherwise the owner's clear responsibility.

When I was borrowing a race car, my sister asked me what happens if I ball up my friend's race car - did he get my road car of the same type? I told her my responsibility was to return the car the same way I received it. In a nutshell, that's the way it is. If you cannot accept it, don't drive someone else's car.

Geo

Probably still paying for a Spec Pinata.

nman413

No driving someone else's car unless you can pay for it if you wad it up. I've had offers when I was having car trouble at the track but elected not to do so as it just did not feel right to me (personally). YMMV.

ColorChange

Thanks guys, that is what I thought. Greg, your racing Eric's car was a particular instance I was curious about. And thanks, I am very cautious with my car.

Here is my problem, I really want someone to "lay down the law" in my car so I can see the data. That will require at least 9.5/10's. I can't ask someone to drive my car hard (Norm, are you listening ) and then make them pay if they break it. If I'm Norm, at best, I say "I'll do it, but I take no responsibility". In reality, I would still feel guilty if I smashed someone’s car and I would end up paying for it.

So here is my thinking. Get to a track Norm (please ) knows well and is safe (Putnam sounds good). Say, drive the **** out of my car everywhere but turn 9 and 10 (bank and wall) and say I’ll cover everything else. I will give him a full session to work up to hot-foot speed and then ask him to burry it for one or two laps when he is ready. Reasonable?

The reason I want Norm is his car is very similar and he is damn good.

BrokeAss

can I drove your car?

Larry Herman

Any standup guy (those with high character ) would feel terrible if anything were to happen to your car while they were driving it, regardless of what happened or why. That is probably why the best drivers are reluctant to do so.

However, if it were racing your car for you, for a $30 trophy, well racing is racing and all bets are off!

Geo

CC, as always, alternate prior personal arrangements always apply. I recently did something similar to what you're looking for someone to do.

But, I also agree with Larry. Most stand-up sorts won't walk away from a problem and toss you the keys and say "your problem" so most will still be rather circumspect at the prospect.

RJay

To my mind this is a completely different question from the one I understood you to be asking initially. Here you're becoming more of a team owner and "hiring" a test driver. If Alex Wurz wrecks in testing at Jerez, McClaren doesn't make him pay for the car. They might fire his ***, but thats about it. If you're asking Norm or anyone else to go out and probe around the limits of what your car can do, I think you have to take full reponsibility.

ColorChange

Rjay, I am curious on both questions, but I think I agree with you on the Norm issue. If I am asking him to do it ... I am "hiring" him for a job so the risk is mine.