Johnny911

Has anyone here run with any DE groups other than PCA? I’m looking to expand my track time options and I’m curious about other car clubs like BMWCCA, FCA (or FOC), PDA, Track Masters and the like. Costs, instructor discounts, safety, professionalism, car and/or driver requirements and of course letting a 911 in to play, are all factors. First hand advice would be most appreciated. Thanks.

TT Surgeon

I've done the PDA at Watkins Glen, surprisingly well run. Many different makes present. A lot of rice in the lower run group. They are a little pricey, ~250$/ event, you need a tech form, helmet, etc. I'm doing the PDA event at Limerock on 3/24.
www.pdadrivingschool.com

Jon Moeller

I've been out of the loop for a while, but my summary from two years ago is:

PDA = fast and loose. Not necessarily a bad thing, but with these guys, you're responsible for your car (I know, it's like that at all events, but moreso, here). Wasn't incredibly impressed with the instruction:
instructor 1 - bagged on the last run group because he wanted to head home ("signed me off" from his driver's seat on the way out of the paddock)
instructor 2 - no real constructive criticism
instructor 3 - ditto

BMWCCA = comparable to what I've heard about PCA. Good instructors, pretty strict rules for behavior on track.

-J

TT Surgeon

Fast and loose, I know what you mean. The instructors are basically a waste of time. Overall, a good experience though.

Horizontally Opposed Man

I would suggest you go to www.trackschedule.com this site has a comprehensive listing of DE activities however it has an emphasis on the South Eastern US but it has some great stuff on it you could also check with various tracks and see what they have on their schedule they can often direct you to the registrar for specific events

tdf360

I've used TrackMasters several times, no complaints. Reasonable price, well organized, minimal flakes on track. Good value.

Gary

trumperZ06

I've attended (instructed) with:

Viper Days... excellent... fast cars

TracQuest... excellent... mostly late model high performance cars

Car Guys... very very good... would you belive a Lambo !

NASA... good... lots of Bang for the buck

POC... good... some nice 944 turbos

Panoz Days at Road Atlanta... good...Group A is very fast, but they usually have 2 or 3 cars waded up each weekend. NO INSTRUCTION

PCA.... Coastal Empire... fair... limited track time

Alfa club... fair to poor ... Alfa's are slow

Triangle Z/Tarheels... fair... usually a large turn-out

SVT Cobra... last year was good, fair this year, some complained about limited track time

Corvette/South Carolina... poor... club doesn't do many Events/ high speed... 1 car at a time... NO INSTRUCTION

Corvette Atlanta... poor... Club does one high speed event each year, 1 car at a time... NO INSTRUCTION... not much sharing of information !!!

BMW... Peachtree, I haven't attended any of their events but I do know a couple of their instructors who also instruct for NASA. I am told that they tend to have 2 or 3 MAJOR incidents each weekend when they put on an event at Road Atlanta. This club has the reputation of being a " Very Disciplined" operation, hard to explain the accidents.



Note: The top three are also the most expensive ! My opinion is highly influenced by the caliber of drivers who attended and the quality of the cars.

BrandonH

Back when I was packing in the DEs, I drove w/whoever matched up with whatever weekend I could get free. I frequently used Dale's Track Schedule http://vista.pca.org/jsr/jsrpca/dales.htm
I got my start on the track with the "Quattro" now Audi club, whose events are usually terrific. I also drove with the BMW club. Many of these were great (the Audi club event at Mid OH is hands down the best DEs I've ever attended either as student or instructor; uses MO school "faculty" for an "instructor" school which includes the likes of Calvin Fish and, last year, Randy Pobst) Actually the car clubs were all pretty comparable with bigger variances between individual chapters than broad marques.

JackOlsen

Where are you located, Johnny911?

The character of some of the national groups changes from region to region.

38D

www.tracquest.com. Great events.

Matt Marks

NASA - lots of run time, good instructors and excellent classroom. Relaxed but safe. Events all over the country. Also, there's racing in-between the DE sessions so there's always something to watch.

Also - not sure what your driving level is, but instructors run for free in their own run group - passing anywere with a point by (including corners).

Good fun!

gerry100

Don't know where you are located, my experience is at the Glen and Lime rock with the PCA and BMWCCA.

Patroon and Gennessee Valley BMW clubs do an excellent job ( both UpstateNY) as do the HCR and NER PCA clubs. Both offer good instruction and good oversight. I couldn't characterize them as "fast and loose" at any time.

I've heard negatives about other PCA regions, (don't know if they were fair) so I'd judge the DE's by the sponsoring clubs reputation not by the national group.

Jim Child

In my experience BMWCCA DE's are every bit as good as PCA DE's, and welcome all makes including Porsches.

38D

Btw, I just noticed that the TracQuest event at Watkins Glen is now open. If you've never run with TracQuest, it's a really fun group.

Also, the NNJR PCA April event at Lime Rock still had spots as of a few days ago. NNJR is another absolutely great group to run with.

Brian P

I can't tell from the original message what you are looking for... If your current PCA region doesn't have enough events or their events conflict with your schedule, it'd be worthwhile checking out other PCA regions. While each region has its own way of running things, you'll find more in common with other PCA regions than with other clubs.

If you are looking to run with other clubs, then it's a bit of a different story. First off, if you are still in an instructed group, I'd have a hard time recommending anything but a PCA club. Instructors are top notch, and PCA is starting a national instructor program to ensure a high quality of PCA instructors throughout the nation.

If you aren't instructed anymore, and you are looking for the biggest bang for your buck... I might recommend finding clubs that run mid-week. Most times those events are cheaper (mid-week track rental is cheaper than Saturday/Sunday rental) and there are fewer people attending the event. Overall, you got a lot more run time for fewer $$$ during a mid-week event. Failing that, with other things being equal, a PCA event tends to cost much less, but it also tends to attract more people (hey, PCA is the biggest sports car club in the U.S.). And a good general rule is that the more an event costs, the fewer cars that will be on the track with you, so you'll have fewer trains. Those who have had a semester of economics would just call this an application of pricing theory.

Oh, and as far as letting a 911 in to play, I don't know of any club that excludes them or that limits its events to one marque (other than PCA, of course). Frankly, I was a bit saddened to see that any yokel could join the BMWCCA club and not have to prove ownership of a BMW.