I've had mine since the beginning of the season and am still impressed with the comfort of the Hybrid mounting sub straps!

 

Just got home from the spring SVRA vintage at Road America. Almost every car was using a Willans harness. Just felt like sharing. Almost every car is using a 5-point system. I even found a few group 6 cars with a 5-point, with no 5th hole in the seat. I know this may be vintage racing, but at RA Group 6 cars run in the low 2:30's. Lead car in the mid 2:20's.

On a down note - an Indy style car went of in the kink - corner worker said it looked like the driver didn't even hit the brake's - went nose first at speed. I guess he's ok, didn't hear a final answer. He was air lifted out.

Group 6 - GT350 spun on the front straight before the start finish line. They had to cut to roof off the car - he was also air lifted out. Back 3/4 of the car looked fine, the frint clip was destroyed. He was also air lifted out - didn't look good.

 

Hmmm...

You could safely say that since a lot of the drivers are also vintage, that their thinking may be too. Willans belts were popular when a lot of the euro formula cars were new, so it is perhaps a part of the nostalgia that they are still used. Not to take anything away from them, they are an excellent product.

Considering all the great technology out there in any given area, it can still be a long search sometimes in finding people that employ cutting edge safety equipment. Some very smart people are really dumb when it comes to safety. Carl Schroth is quite possibly the leading safety euipment guy in the world. He says a 6-point - designed and installed as we have discussed here - is the best. He might have more sled testing, um... under his belt than anyone in the world. Works for me!

 

Not sure if this adds anything but a side note...
As a result of this discussion, I went from a standard 5-pt setup to a 6-pt. The sub is the more conventional "V" arrangement and not like the newer Simpson Plat or Schroth, but I did want something more modern and in line with the current safety findings. Well after using it for a few events, I can say that it is no more a hindrance than a 5pt, and arguably "feels" safer just because I feel more snugly hemmed in, plus the knowledge of what John (RedlineMan) and others have shared here. Thanks a bunch to all that have shared their expertise and specific knowledge on this subject.


Edward

 

Hey Edward;

Using an old school double sub - what I call a "V" sub - does allow some of the hip retention that a single strap does not. However, to get this requires that you mount the sub tails rearward (lap belt holes work) and sit on the straps. The downside is that - like the formula type - the "V" sub must be worn tight to have maximum effect on holding down the lap belt (which is job one for ANY sub). With the single clip positioned right on top of Your Boys, you can see the possibilities.

You can get forward hip retention, but at the cost of your privates, I'm afraid. If it is run straight down like a single sub, it does nothing MORE than a single sub. A formula arragement offers hip retention without the "soft tissue damage" issues. Still, THEY are not ideal. The "V" is far worse.

To heavily paraphrase the classic Andretti quote, if your "V" sub is not uncomfortable, you don't have it installed right!

 

Thanks for the feedback, John!
I am, indeed, sitting on the subs and running them back out the lapbelt holes. I also cinch down tightly! Actually, it "seems" like I am more tightly fastened into the seat than I ever was before with a single (conventional) sub.

As far as squeezing the boys, well, I am a bit "comfort compromised," but it is not too bad, but not as bad as Andretti recommends ...I forget about it as soon as I'm out of the pits. It "seems" anyway that the sub latch into the camlock cannot go any lower (just at/above the boys), and that in the event of a frontal incursion, the substaps would "seem" like they'd hold my thighs/pelvis pretty well (already pretty tighly cinched in as is). Does that make sense?

Edward

 

As long as this thread has been revived and I seem to be the poster-boy for RaceTech, need to let you know that I was most pleasantly surprised to find that my RaceTech Viper model HR seat has belt slots for BOTH 6 and 7 point harnesses.

Mind you, nowhere in the printed info is this touted by RaceTech (neither are the integral seat-back mounting points), but I discovered the second set of molded holes after pulling the seat padding to study how I might route a six point set-up... Very pleased...

So add another MFR/Model to the list of those seats that come factory ready to accept a 6 or 7 point harness...

 

Just a heads up on the Schroth.... at this time I do not believe PCA allows 2" lapbelts. Current rules require 3". This may be under re-consideration, but maybe we PCA racers should raise this issue. The Schroth HANS retention system looks like a winner IMHO. I'm really not comfortable or "comfortable" with the current retention of my HANS just with this regular shoulder harnesses.

Plus the poly belts seem to the be hot ticket.

 

Thanks for the tip on the RaceTech seat, DAR.

I agree with you, JCP. Schroth has the deal where retention is concerned.

Edward -

What I can tell you is that I use a standard Simpson Latch & Link 5-point. With the sub properly adjusted for length, the latch is right over my dink... I mean JUST above. The lap straps cut into the tops of my thighs. Properly adjusted, a "V" sub would be no different, except my single terminates forward, not rearward. This would place the clip and the point where the straps are sewn together hard against all of the important soft tissues there. If you aint squeezed just sitting there, you've need to re-adjust.

Schroth Hybrid HANS in my future.

 

IIRC, 2" lap belts are allowed in Cup cars, as installed/delivered from the factory.

 

Just to bring something else back:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...highlight=hans

The thread describes the Schroth "dual shoulder belt" harness design for HANS. Basically 2 3" shoulder belts for the driver, 2 2" shoulder belts to hold down the HANS. Currently in use by Ryan Newman in NA$CAR.

Has PCA approved the 2-3" HANS specific shoulder harnesses as currently built by Schroth?

 

itc... I don't think the shoulder harness is the issue. As long as it is 3" it is ok.... which is the case here

 

Yes, I believe PCA requires both 3" shoulder and l3" ap belts.

I was merely inquiring as to whether or not the 3" to 2" HANS specific shoulder belts were PCA approved.
IIRC, they were approved ONLY when used with a HANS device.

The 2" lap belt requirement seems to be behind the curve compared to other sanctioning bodies, but it is what it is.