DrJupeman

Zman, you lost me. In an earlier post you tell us that the 944NA is a cheap car to run and then you post this expensive repair. So is the 944 a cheap car or not?

I think the issue here is that both the 924/944 and 914 are cheap if nothing breaks. The parts cost on the 944s is not VW-cheap. The 914 can have rust issues and other slippery slopes of its own.

As you can see in the spreadsheet Pesky posted, I've tried to give this considerable thought. My problem is that I've been there done that with a 914 and 951. I just like 911s better! The passion of ownership is worth something to me and I happen to pay extra for that at the track because I now run a fat and fast car. I pay the tax, but I love every minute of it!

Frankly, if any of us wanted a cheap track car we wouldn't be driving Porsches.

Lucky for me, the other passion of my life (Food Angel here on Rennlist) loves the sport, too, and is low maintenance (no need to send her to spa weekends when I go to the track!)...

38D

I agree with basically everything Jupe said. In balancing cost, reliability and speed, I would get an already done Carerra or 964. They are more reliable than the 914 or the 944 series, and they are relatively fast.

Mark in Denver

Not counting stuff that improves the car or makes it safer, I have spent an average of $4000 per year over the last 3 years for maintenance on my 951 and I don't see any reason why this wouldl stop. That's for about 15-20 track hours per year - about 4 events plus practice.

I take Zman's point that the 951 and 944S2 are in the same maintenance cost range because of the turbo or 16 valve head. I also agree that the 8-valve NA 944's would probably be somewhat cheaper, but it's still a Porsche and used parts are going to get more scarce because of the 944 spec series.

Personally, I'm passionate about racing, not the car. That's why I don't race a 911 and that's why I do most of my racing in my Spec Miata.

Mark

GrantG

My two 951S's were VERY pricey to track - 911's are more expensive to purchase but far cheaper to run...

mitch236

My last student showd up in a rental Neon. Now that's got to be the cheapest way to track a car!!

Rich Sandor

I average about $1000 per year for maintenance only. I do a lot of work myself. Frankly I'm surprised you guys are paying so much to track these cars. It's certainly more than what I'm paying.

Upgrades are of course a different story, but in essence they are what make the 951 such a bargain.
$5000 - $7000 for a racer candidate 951 (body and interior in fair condition or less)
$4000 for bolt-on engine upgrades to a reliable 400bhp (vitesse racing)
$3000 in suspension upgrades (LEDA's or LR's Escort Cup setup)
$1000 in race seats / harnesses (2 sparco's and a harness bar + harnesses)
$1500 for big reds (bigger brakes = less fade = pads last longer = cheaper in long run) (LR has this kit)
$1000 (or less) for a full 3" exhaust (local fab shop or any of the online tuners.. LR, SFR.. etc..)

$15,000 - $17,000 total in parts (not incld installation labour - you should be able to install everything yourself if you have the tools and access to rennlist for reference)

$15-17,000 and this car will FOR SURE keep up with most N/A 993's and 996's.

Factor in another $3000 for miscelleneous repairs and maintenance and at $20,000 you still have a bargain supercar.

or, for $3000 buy a beater 914 and flog it to death.

924RACR

Ah, but the 924's are galvanized except for maybe the first year, so won't rust like a 914, but are just as cheap if not cheaper to fix and run. Those parts are all VW-cheap - they're all standard VW-issue! Not to mention timing belts on a 924 are cheap and easy - $8 for a new belt. Not that I've ever had one go, anyway. Good 924's (in spite of what some might feel it to be an oxymoron) are even cheaper than 914's, at around $2000USD tops, and easier to come by. They're also faster, topping out closer to 110 stock - must be the aero. 944 suspension parts are pretty much all carryover, including the brakes, bolt-on. They're also tractor-simple to work on. The only places I'd give the nod to the 914 would be the mid-engine thing, if you prefer that, no question a matter of personal taste - though the 924's are just as balanced and easier to drive - and the dry sump for the track work with sticky tires (but that's really only a concern for full-on racing).

How cheap do you want to race today?

38D

I'll grant you that I have't run these kits, but I find it hard to believe that cranking up the boost to 15 psi (over 1.0 bar) on a 20 year old car would be reliable at all. I've had two friends who chipped their 951s, which supposedly increased power to a modest 265hp. Both had problems fairly quickly after going to the track (one blew the head gasket, the other spun a bearing).

Brian P

For one of those friends (and maybe both), it's hard to blame the car for the engine troubles.

Greg Fishman

My 993 is pretty easy and reasonable to maintain and so far it has been very durable. I don't think I have had one DNS or DNF. They aren't cheap to fix but what Porsche is?

Rich Sandor

I've been running 14psi on guru chips for almost 2 years now. A few tracks days, lots of autoX, lots of very high RPM driving. No problems whatsoever so far. I would submit that your friend's headgasket was on the way out anyways, and the boost upgrade merely expedited the headgasket's departure. The engine has been nothing but reliable in my case. I've had dead batteries and leaky clutch master cylinders, and that's about the extent of my reliability problems. Keep up with critical maintenance, and reliability shouldn't be a problem.

That said, everything on a car is a "wear item." Everything will expire sooner or later. There's no avoiding it. If you think parts are getting old and tired on an 18 yr old 951, how old and tired do you think the parts on a 30 year old 914 are going to be????

Regardless of what you buy, 911, 914 or 944, I think it's really important to know what you are doing before you start spending money. Nothing worse than having to take the car apart 5 or 6 times to upgrade or replace bits, when you could just save up and do it all at once instead.

38D

How many is a few track days? I doubt you will find many people that run many track days (like 10-20 per year) that have had a smiilar experience when cranking up the boost. AutoX and high RPM driving are not the same...it's the long straights where you are at max boost that causes issues (and then doing that over and over again). I certainly hope your experience keeps being different, but that's just not what I've typically seen.

Z-man

Jupeman: I confused the issue here. My car is a 16-valve 944S2. It is NOT cheap to run. The car I say that is cheap to run is the 944 8-valve non-turbo.
Two very different cars in terms of reliability and maintenance costs. The 8-valve n/a drivetrain is robust and bulletproof.

-Z.

Larry Herman

Our 951 has had two new trans'es (one by the P.O. and one by us), a complete belt/rollers/water pump job, a new head gasket, new Charlie arms (because the stock ball joints kept breaking) and now needs a new pan gasket. While we're doing that, we will most likely change the rod bearings because #2 probably doesn't have much life left in it. Remember that they are only good for between 60-80 track hours on over-boosted 951s.

mitch236

I run chips from Autothority and do around 4 track days a month. Replaced the head gasket when I did the chip. No problem so far (knock on wood)