Mike in Chi

yep, Max, it is for the Pepper.

Sorry should have put that in the above.

Wait to a PCNA market researcher discovers Soccer moms like to open the kids doors with the remote

Jarez Mifkin

don't forget the remote tail gate and 3 rows of seating with enough storage under the seats to put your race car in!!!

JCP911S

Mike in Chi...."conspiracy" ....there may be alot of ways to connect the dots, but the close relationship financially and strategically between PAG and VW/Audi suggest alot of dots....

It would certainly be stupid for them to bludgeon each other on the track... and given PAGs large engineering consulting business, wouldn't surprise me if thire were not alot of contract/sharing on the R8 either.... but they are very secret about this stuff.... hard to trumpet "your" racing acumen when some other company actually built your car..... although this is the norm these days....

Same with hybrid power.... they can make a ton of money licensing technology to mass market MFGs, even if they don;t use it themselves... they do alot of that, and ihybrid is the wave of the future for family haulers.

I suspect the Audi LeMans, if it ever appears will be way more expensive than the 997... probably solid 6 figures or more...

Not sure the 997 really has a head to head competitor.... there's Corvette on the low end and Ferrari on the high.... but these folks are all very loyal to their brand Maseratti is closer to the price point, but I could see most American Porsche guys buying a Vette before they'd buy a Maser... and then as a second car. NSX isn't even on the map, really.... Lotus is too extreme for the street, and the Viper..... well.... you know...

Mike in Chi

Maserati has been doing a good job of product placement.

The hottie philanderess on Desperate Housewives drives one (but watch closely there's usually a P-car parked on the street in the background).

Also Tony's NYC nemesis drovge one last season on the Sopranos.

macnewma

Yeah, I would say the 997's biggest competitors will be the M3/M4, the Vette, the Viper and the Elise (although it is closer to a Boxster). They are really all great cars and each has its own niche. Ultimately we are lucky that there are so many top notch performance cars available right now. I don't think any of these guys will knock any of the others out due to their uniqueness.

IMO, the Maserati is a cool car but it really competes against the SL500/SL55 and the Jag convertible. If I were looking for a really nice powerful cruising convertible it would be either the SL or the Maserati.

Do you guys really think that Audi will build much of a sports car? Their R8 experience has little relevance. The TT is a waste of a sports car and the S4 is really just a muscle car.

Max

JCP911S

Whle all these cars cluster as to performance, they really appeal to totally different "psychographics" (if you'll pardon the term)... very strong positive reaction to one car and neutral or negative to the rest.... if there were only one sports car in the family, I think it would be virtually impossible to sell a Porsche to a Corvette guy, or a Viper to a Ferrari guy or a VIper to a Porsche guy....

Nordschleife

Guys

I can assure you, there is NO relationship between Porsche and Audi when it comes to the R8. Porsche does have a consulting business, it does not provide Audi with race cars, however.

Porsche is a small company, somebody else will provide the hybrid system, the same company which developed the Cayenne.

The Audi Le Mans Quattro will be targetted at the 997/998. initiaslly it will not be a Turbo competitor, nor will it have the V10 engine from the outset. Audi's performance leader will always be Lamborghini. There is a considerable body of Audi AG and quattro GmbH suits who intent going head to head with Porsche with this car.

Do not sell Maserati short, the new Gran Sport has resolved many of the initiial car's problems. The new Quattroporte is engineered by Audi ASF engineers.

And if you really believe that Lotus is too extreme for the street, I don't know what to say.

R+C

Geo

I find it amusing that PAG is considering a hybrid, while claiming they will never produce a Diesel. Stupid. Diesels are growing in technology in big leaps these days. The BMW Diesels are supposed to be simply awesome. I wish BMW would sell a Diesel X5 in the states.

Mike in Chi

C'mon Nord, Audi used to supply Porsche with 944s, I figured Porsche would want to return the favor with a good little race car

Have you heard a price point for the Audi Le Mans Quattro?

macnewma

You can say that again Geo. Especially with the advent of biodiesel. A clean diesel fuel is hard to beat. I bet you could make a pretty wild turbo diesel race car.

Max

Geo

Boy howdy. The Diesel race car at LeMans this year went out early because the clutch couldn't handle the torque. There were some who felt it could be quite a competitive car.

Nordschleife

Mike

Porsche has already returned the favour; it was called the RS2, which was (is) great, apart from the turbo lag and the tendency of said object to hand-grenade about 2 mille-seconds after the (oft extended) warranty has expired!

I have been fortunate enough to have driven some interesting diesels, including a very high performance one from AMG, a number of luxury saloons and a number of more mundane cars. The AMG was very impressive, until we tried driving it at US Freeway speeds, immediate noisy truck effect, which you just didn't notice at higher speeds. The V10 Diesel Touareg is great, until you start hustling it along or taking it off road, then the shear weight of the engine comes back to haunt you. perhaps the most impressive was the Audi A8 with the 4 litre Diesel V8, the only one that was quiet. But, it doesn't matter which one you pick, they are not interesting to drive on the street. Off road I prefer driving my Diesel Land Cruiser to anything else, so I'm not entirely biased against oil burners.

I do not have any price points for the Le Mans Quattro. I doubt that anybody in Audi does either. I would imagine the price will be set by the need to compete with Porsche. Initially, I anticipate the cars will match the normally aspirated 911s in terms of performance. The bi turbo V10 engine seen in the show car is unlikely to be seen initially. Will it be any good, I don't know, I hope so, because competition improves the breed.

R+C

carreracup21

I saw the ALMS site ran this story, I guess as a way of promoting sponsorship. You can see that Porsche gets a lot of bang for the buck with thier GT3RS in that series. Take a look here for the story

NetManiac

This is probably completely irrelevant, but reading this thread about Porsche and Audi got me thinking about it. Years ago I had an '81 Audi Coupe. I remember distinctly that this car had "Porsche, VW, Audi" stickers and markings all over the engine and bay. I have never really been able to find details on the relationship between the manufacturers in the early 80's, but it would appears as though they were all one in the same. Can anyone help me understand?

Thanks.

JBH

I said this before in the OT forum, so forgive me if the words look familar to some...

NASCAR has sucked the life out of just about every form of racing in the US. Speed Channel is all the evidence anyone needs of this change. Road racing no longer carries the same mystic, excitement or competition. When competing in the same time slots, NASCAR just totally dominates viewing shares.

So why should Porsche pour millions into a prototype development program that races in a series that nobody (or only a scarce few) cares about. From a marketing perspective, there is probably a very low return on the Mark. Most local papers and television stations don't even carry a mention of LeMans before, during or after the race.

It may be different in Europe, but in the US (Porsche's largest market), people are perfectly content to see stock cars chasing each other around in circles. I agree with all the comments about how important racing is to the marque, but until sales drop, nobody at PAG is going to pay attention.

It seems to me, the move to the hybrid is intended to mitigate the very possibility that performance car sales may not be able to sustain their sales volumes.

I predict Porsche will start to look very much like Mercedes in the next five to ten years.