Some of the Riesentoter group went to Shenandoah to experience the circuit and decide if they will include it in their next years schedule. Can anyone comment from Riesentoter on their experience yesterday?

 

Hi,

I can comment on this. We (about 12 of us) went down on Monday and drove the track in about eight different configurations.

I'm not really sure what you are looking for and I will answer your questions with specific answers if you care to ask them.

We are going to ask Summit Point Raceway to make a couple of changes which I think will make events easier to manage and easier on instructors.

Here's what we found:

The track is very technical, but fun to drive. It can be run in either direction and can be configured in many different ways.

The configuration that we settled on is 1.5 miles in length and will be run counter clockwise. It does not include the tight section that's closest to the JC track. If they straighten out one section of that piece of the track we will include it and it will bring the track length up to 1.8 miles. One of the turns in that section is pretty cool so I hope they can make that work.

We ran the course in the other direction and while some of us liked that direction there were a couple of issues that we would like to see addressed.

We had taken the opportunity to drive the track last August in pickup trucks and came away with a very bad feeling about the carousel and the tightness of the rest of the track. I can say after yesterdays experience those concerns were unwarranted. Bill Scott has done a pretty good job of putting together a multi configurable track that should serve us well for years to come.


Michael Andrews

 

That's good news. Hopefully they will get those corners worked out...

 

Does Bill Scott have an 'open date' for Shenandoah yet?

-Z-man.

 

Mike, how was the carousel turn at speed? Looked daunting as hell when I walked it earlier in the year! What cars were represented and anyone running close to 9-10/10ths?

 

Mitch,

The carousel was much better than I had expected based upon my initial drives in SUV's. It's rough, and I'm certain you can carry much more speed than we were. That is assuming you're running counter clockwise. The transistion into and out of the "bowl" seems to work better in that direction. When we ran the other direction (clockwise) some of the cars were geting air coming out of the bowl. That's one of the changes were going to talk to track management about.

As for cars, we had a couple of 930's, a couple of 996 Turbos (one GT2) and a couple of older 911's. Oh, and an M3.

As I said, I'm sure we we're not getting the most out of the cars given that we only have about 6 hours of time on the track. Brian was seeing 135 or so coming down the hill so it's not like we weren't trying.

Like I said in my prior post, it's going to be a fun track, it's just going to be tough on instructors.



Z-man,

I don't know when he's planning on opening it but I do know that NJ BMW has anounced that they will be running the weekend of Nov 6-7.


Peace,
Michael

 

Z-man, Why don't you go on your way back from VIR?

 

Thanks for the input Mike. I would be extremely surprised if the management would consider changing the track based on feedback from a club. I'm curious what gives you the impression that your suggestions will or even can be implemented at this stage? To me, this seems like very lofty expectations.

 

JC, we (Potomac Region) also evaluated the track and provided engineering drawing with suggested 'enhancements'. We also considered Riesentorer's inputs when we conducted our evaluation. It is obvious, Bill Scott's goal is to make this a first rate facility, with simultaneous events at each of three tracks, Shenandoah, Summit Point, and Jefferson Circuit. He is very receptive to suggestions. He has provided the time, support personnel, safety crew, and limited corner workers, to assist in the evaluation. It is clear he has invested a large amount of time and money into this facility and this facility must be fully utilized to realize a return on his investment.

From my perspective the most difficult part of gaining acceptance for this track will be establishing a corp of instructors who will not get sick or overly intimidated from/in the right seat.

I took the Boxster to the track and drove a session in each direction. The Boxster is obviously my 'power' car. At least for DE; power will not be as important as patience, good handling, and good brakes. The surface is surprisingly 'grippy' for a new track. The track provides a variety of interesting and challenging configurations. I also evaluated the track from the right seat for two sessions, wearing the patch. I prefer the CW direction without the carrousel, both as an instructor and as a driver. Entry to the carrousel is one lane wide in either direction. There will be no chance of executing this turn off-line. What is not obvious from Michael's post is that many of the configuration changes can be made quickly and inexpensively. In many places concrete barriers (jersey walls) can be easily moved farther from the track. Tires are already bundled and tire walls/barriers can be quickly repositioned. Things that are difficult to change include the entry to the carousel from either direction, impossible transition from either the high or low side of the carousel to the line, and pit entry in the CCW direction.

Our initial intention was to conduct a three day event with only White, Black, and Red run groups. The first day would be an instructor only day with BSR instructors . White would at least begin as an instructed group. We did not have our event this weekend, not because of willingness to honor our requests; but, because important infrastructure is not in place. Paddock parking barely accommodated the vehicles we took to the evaluation, very nice facilities are under construction, corner stations are not in place, and other things that will normally be fixed. These are things that can only be addressed after they are discovered, like areas of standing water, areas needing additional curbing.

When this track is fully developed it will be possible to run two totally different tracks in one weekend with minor changes to the facility. We normally expect to see 150 entrants at an event at Summit Point but there is not room in the infield to accommodate even half that many entrants and support vehicles. Bill Scott is adding another paddock area but it is not ready yet.

 

JC,

And to add to Alan's comments we intend to say please

In all seriousness, the fact that the track people were there five or six times throughout the day asking us for our opinions and recommendations is a pretty strong indicator that Bill wants this to be a premier facility.

I'm trying to get there next weekend and will be able to give more insight as to how an event, with students, unfolds.

Michael

 

I came across this old thread today. As I understand it from Mike, Bill Scott made all the requested changes. Quite impressive.

This was the first track I've been on in a car and it was a GREAT deal of fun. Not as hard to find my way around it as I first had thought.

 

The Shenandoah track is open. Events are scheduled through the summer, including a NASA race event this coming weekend.

Bill invited NASA to run a test day in early May. Here's a short video One Lap Tour of the track as we ran it.

 

I was at SP this weekend, and had the opportunity to ride along during two slow two laps of the course. The track is not like any conventional track I've even seen. Many, MANY turns -- I can't count how many times the track turned in on itself.

Please note: I am not a safety engineer, a lawyer, a professional racecar driver, OR a track designer. These are soley my opinons of the track -- TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!

The concrete barriers were moved back a bit - but IMHO, they are now not close enough, and not far enough to be effective. Sometimes, a closer barrier will allow an out of control car to hit with a glancing blow -- think blue armco @ the Glen. The barriers are placed far enough to allow a spinning/sliding car to smack the barrier head on. Seems there's not enough room between the barriers and the track to allow an out of control car to safely slow down.

In my opinion, a big problem with the track layout is the lack of reference points. Most often, there's a portion of track on your left and/or right, so it is hard to pick up reference points due to the similarity of the landscape. At one point during 'lap one,' someone commented: "Are we on lap two? Seems we've been here before..."

The Nurbergring (sp?) turn is quite interesting. Especially when seating in the back of a cargo van on a lawn chair! I just wouldn't want to loose it in there - not sure if there is enough run off around it to allow a car to safely come to a stop if it is lauched. I also suspect that if a car pops out of the banked portion, there can be some undercarriage damage.

There is a lack of passing zones - at least from my perspective. Also: I heard it said by a couple of other folks riding along during the laps that the track is an instructor's nightmare -- there are so many turns and so much going on that it will be very difficult for instructors to properly teach each corner.

That said, I will be signing up for a DE event there in the fall...

-Z.

 

It is really not that hard to instruct on if you can keep your stomach under control. I instructed with Friday at the track today. I had at least three students and the day was quite hot. This is where it is really important to stay far ahead of the car.

 

I went to the NASA event last weekend and did my first race (wohoo!). The track is a lot of fun, and is very very challenging. It definitely has a rhythm to it, sort of like Mid-Ohio. We (NASA) were the first group to actually race on the Nurburgring turn. There is a surprising amount of grip on both the high and low non-banked portions of that turn, and during the race people would pass there. The Laguna Seca corkscrew turn is also a lot of fun (though scary when a Toyota spec racer passes you there on the inside!!)

I drove in a few DE sessions also. NASA allows the advanced run groups to pass in the turns (with a point), so there wasn't a problem of not enough passing zones.

Z-man -- Yes, don't pop out of the banked part of the Nurburgring turn, it makes an awful sound!!

All in all I think its a very fun track and I'm looking forward to going back -- hopefully next time I'll figure out that downhill off-camber turn!