Brian P

The worst instructors I've had were the ones who didn't really say anything. It was as if they thought, "hmm, what this guy needs is 200 pounds of ballast."

The intermediate instructors (for me, other people might like this) were the ones who were telling me that I was doing everything right and I just needed more seat time.

The best (and I didn't like them at the time) were the ones who pointed out what I was doing wrong and really tried to get me to change my driving style. I even had one instructor pull me into the pits and give me a quick lecture. What he had to say still sticks out in my mind. For the most part, while I didn't like what these instructors had to say at the time, I can still remember quite a bit of what they said. As I got better, I began realizing that what they had to say was correct.

Also (and I'm sure this is just a coincidence) the people who cut through the BS and just told me what I was doing was wrong were generally club racers. Also, for the most part, I got the most criticism after I was in the white run group - just goes to show that bad habits are easy to pick up if you don't get someone else in the car with you.

Alan Herod

An interesting thread - I have had the opportunity to instruct in a wide range of cars and one thing that will guarantee a less then satisfactory learning experience for an instructed student is showing up with a fully race prepared car on slicks. At Potomac we minimally subsidized the instructor corps to convert from the Nady to the Chatterbox. These communicators are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Yet in some incredibly loud race cars communication with either is impossible. Some cars remove all noise suppresion from their ignition system and our communicators pick up every spark pulse when in close proximity to these cars, worse if you are trying to instruct in these cars. During the Green phase of learning basic skills a stock car on stock rubber is a much better learning environment. Another impediment is poor helmet fit. If the students helmet is too loose the earpiece does not fit up against the ear. Clearly there are differences in instructors and often we do not have enough information when making assignments, particularly when we have out of region instructors. A car listed as a 1980 911SC may be a GT car. I try to gain as much information from the instructors concerning their preferences through email and through personal discussions at the track. Most will say that they will take any student in any car, but in reality they drive a fully prepared race car and have little patience for a beginner student and would be a much better fit with an advanced student. Some of the seemingly least likely instructors want to be with the 0/0 student. If there is a mismatch between the instructor and the student, your Chief Instructor needs to know. If your instructor takes off, let your CI know. Generally there will be instructors milling about at pit out ready to hop in a student's car if required, You should not have to sit on the fence watching your run group go by.

JCP911S

Few "bad" instructors...Where instructors have weaknesses, I would say they falll into a few catagories.

First... they are focused on their car/getting out early, and see the student as an annoying task, and leave them on the grid or sign them off prematurely...... sometimes everybody is distracted by a problem... but repeaters (and there are a few in every group) should be evolved out of the instructor program.

Second... experience.... many instructurs are learning too... takes a long time to be able to handle everything you see in a typical weekend.... students hopefully understand this and they can learn together.. over time they will get a mix of experience.

Third... instructor has "one way" to do things... this isn't necessaryily a problem, but where the student is having difficulties, sometimes it is difficult for he intrructor adjust and change their style accordingly.... this is where a swap can be useful.

Few "bad" strudents either.... where there are challenges these are:

First... won't listen, or more often, won't concentrate... you tell them something and they don;t do it consistently... they will do it well three times and them totally blow it... you need to be a bit more of a drill instructor here... constant positive and negative feedback... don;t get signed off....

Second... nervous students... these are tough because you have to build confidence first... hard to do when ten cars are stacked up behind them trying to pass... this is something they cannot really control... you need to be very careful to push them in a very positive way... but not too hard....too much "instructing" just pushes them in the wrong direction.

Three... "Eddie Haskall".... they conscientiously listen to every word you say, and drive consistently, then go out and drive like maniacs when they get signed off... hard to tell them... just hope they don't bang into something...

I always set three objective for a student in order of importance:

1... go home with the car in one piece

2... have a good time

3... walk away with at least one new driving skill that they didn;t have when they came

mitch236

I have been instructing for only a year and here are my observations.

I am very good at communicating the line. I can "talk" most beginners around the track without much problem.

When it comes to advanced students, I feel less adequate. I notice so many problems with so little time to point them out. I only have time to point out one issue at a time but things happen so fast at speed that I am unable to point out the problem when it is happening. I try to use extensive debriefing after the session but I think a better arrangement would be to run 2 laps then come in for debriefing then go out for 2 laps and repeat. But no student wants to do this and I don't blame them.

Teaching beginners is easy, advanced students are much harder because the problems they have are more subtle and numerous.

JCP911S

Mitch... yes the first timers are a joy to teach... eager, excited, and you practically can;t blow your nose without them learing something.

With Advanced students, ... they should know all the basics... passing, flags, getting around the track safely, so you can basically let them go and focus on one or two things... braking, throttle steering, early vs late apex, etc....

You can't teach everything at the same time.... pick one or two things and concentrate on them,,,,if they leave with a solid basis of one new technique, it will be a good weekend... plus you can cover you butt a bit... sometimes these folks are pretty damn good, but there is always something you can do better.... pick that... they'll never know...

ScottMellor

I would not say I have ever had a BAD instructor. I have had 200 pounds of ballast once or twice!
I just move on if they don't have anything to say. If they don't want to be in the with me, let 'em go.
I find the enthusiastic-happy-coach type to best suit my personality. You know, the guy who goes "Yeah Baby!" in unison with me when I get it right. (DJ for example). On the other hand, Margaret Chen(?) is awsome, and her delivery is very understated and she helped me immensly.
I'm firmly in the intermediate group now, and the instruction is getting more subtle.
I think that is a great suggestion for me to get my own communicator. I was out with Harry Demas this weekend, and I could not hear a word he said. We eventually devolved to him giving hand signals and shouting GAS! GAS! GAS!

gerry100

As a relative newcomer ( 13 days) over 3 years to DE, I start of thanking all instructors. After watching them run around all day with students while trying to find time to have some fun themselves, I appreciate the effort they put in for a 50% discount.

My experince is that they are all good drivers, some are better teachers than others. Where the student is on the experience curve is also important.

For my first DE, my Instructor talked basics but was mainly pure encouragement. Of course I was mainly trying to lap the Glen without getting lost and trying to see a few flaggers. He was also very calm and positive when I went off. His approach was a great match for my competence/confidence level.

With more experience, I appreciate the instructor who is on my case with constant feedback/input while on the track. Not trying to boost my self image but trying to teach me something. The kind of instructor that sends an email before the event, suggesting tire pressures and teaching approach. This guy cared that I learned to do it right and it showed.

All the others have been in between, some just watching or commenting occasionally. When you are at the stage where seat time is the best teacher, this works also.

Testosterone is probably biggest problem for everybody. When I was was in my 20's, I was a great undiscovered dirving talent ( coincidently, so were my buddies). Fortunately, I didn't have the dough to do a DE. At best , I would have been thrown out. the instructors challenge in this case is to keep this controlled.

Overequipped Drivers. ( the Cup car in the yellow run group - yes it's true). A level headed student can handle this( I think). Riding in my '86 Carrera can be scary enough fo r these guys. Otherwise, I can see why they leave early on the last day. Of course, some of this is just sour grapes.

Driving is like sex, everybody does and thinks they are naturally good at it. A good teacher makes learning fun.

DGaunt

I can't agree more about the communicator. If your region does not supply and/or require them, buy your own. it is the best bang for the buck to enhance the learning environment.

mpaton

As it happens I am using a Nady. Just when I bought my 2 boxes and about 8 headsets (I knew what was going to happen) many other people in the Texas regions got Chatterboxes. The Chatterboxes don't seem to be troublefree either.
The shortest lived headset I ever had lasted 2 sessions before my student latched it into his seatbelt mechanism and clipped the wire. Not much except the student's own headset willl protect against that. So given that headsets have a hard life, I'll probably stay Nady. The latest headsets from Nady have a coiled cored and more substatial wire and seem to last a bit longer. I also prefer the longer cord length over Chatterbox.

No matter who provides it though, instruction is MUCH more effective with a working intercom.

Michael Paton

a4944

Some of the best instruction I got was without intercoms although I have stock exhaust. These instructors didn't say much, only what was necessary. One was excellent with hand signals. It was very effective. I could see them in the corner of my eye. He would push down when I should get on gas or brake and left/right for tracking out, apex, etc. It was like he was driving the car with me. The other was a club racer and was go go go. Jump that curb to make a straight line etc. He encouraged chasing cars and used that as motivation because that's what I enjoy and the results were tangible. He gave the instruction that I was looking for and we both had fun.

The communicators encourage idle chatter. This takes my focus off of driving. Sometimes you talk about limited slip, upgrades, whatever. I prefer few specific words when driving at speed with a thorough debrief after the run. It's tough to describe a turn a couple of turns back when you are focusing on the next one.

Someone mentioned a good point about teaching advanced students. Work on one or two specific areas. I learned shuffle steering from one of those good instructors. He explained it after a run and we tried it the next run. He explained how not wrapping your thumbs around the steering wheel may help protect them in an accident. He described how shuffle steering helps with a quick catch. I know there are two schools on this but he explained his reasoning well and I tried it and liked it. Another taught me a different approach to turn 1 at VIR South. I timed the new approach and it helped. I was very pleased. There is still room for mastering the instrutor's approach to that turn (like left foot braking) that I can continue to work on on my own.

Mark

Jim Child

I'm nearing the end of my second year with my Chatterbox, and I've had zero problems. Back when I was using the Nady unit I would go through at least four headsets per year. That's great if they're making them more durable these days. Even when my Nady was working perfectly, it didn't sound half as good as my Chatterbox does.

earlyapex

Where can I get a Chatterbox headset?

ScottMellor

http://www.stableenergies.com/products.asp?dept=37

APKhaos

Great thread. One of the key things I've learned while instructing [beginning with several years teaching people to race sailplanes] is to keep the talk to a minimum during the session. Most students are at or near the limit of their ability to process input, and the additional stream of talk from the instructor gets little attention. Short, direct comments and directions about what is happening now, or has just happened, is about it, and hand signals really work to communicate brake points, turn-in, track-out, well done, etc.

I guess I'm in the enthusiastic group who are happy to celebrate when a students begins to get it right. One of the most fun sessions recently was a student who was dead scared of the Chute at Summit Point [a fast, downhill right hander to a heavy braking zone]. By late on the first day he was actually hollering as he shot down there on the gas! Great stuff!

Some of the very best instructors I've had [and I still take an instructor out for a session every DE event] are those that focus on one or two key points for the session. Others have mentioned this, and it really makes a difference for students at all levels. The pre-session briefing & post session debriefing is something that is often missed. The post-session debrief is the most valuable talking time you can get with a student.

Alan Herod

Listen carefully to Tony, he is a great instructor and we get many requests for his talents, regardless of car type and student level. Unfortunately, in good conscience, I can't assign any Boxster students, a roll-cage 914 race car would probably be out as well. As a technique, when I do an evaluation, I let them go for a while, observe only, then attempt to engage them in conversation. At a DE the advanced student must have enough excess capacity to carry on a conversation. Conversely, I also agree that working on one or two specific things per session is the preferred approach, particularly when dealing with a low time student who is suffering from information overload and would like to see progress and positive improvement.