Honkity Hank

What have been your experiences / antedotes with good and poor instructors at DE's? What in your opinioin, made your experience with an instructor good, mediocre, or poor? Interested in your input from both a driver and if applicable from an instructor point of view (good student, poor student).

GUMBALL

I have instructed at both racing schools and car club schools for several years.

THE INSTRUCTOR IS RESPONSIBLE, not only for the students instruction, but also for his safety. The instructor must not allow the student to get into a situation where he can lose the car - unless the student does something "out of the blue", if there is an "off" it is the instructors fault, NOT the student's.....

The only "bad" student is one who refuses to listen, as in "I know how to drive..."
If an explanation of the "Laws of Driving Schools" does not change the students attitude, the student MUST be asked to leave, otherwise a crash is inevitable......

For a student doing their first event, or their first time at this race track, I have found that a demonstration drive - 3-4 slow laps in my car, carefully explaining the line and procedures, is very helpful.

Like everything else in life, some catch on quickly, some more slowly. When I started instructing, one of the things that surprised me, was how quickly one could assess the students potential - natural ability shows, and so does the lack of...

Time permitting, I try to "debrief" as much as possible. It is important that the student not only understand WHAT you are trying to teach, but WHY....
It is also important that the instructor listens to what the student is saying, also what the student is NOT saying.....

I have had a situation where I could not make my student understand - the solution is to switch instructors - sometimes another instructors way of explaining things is more clear to this student.

I have found that most women make better students than most men - women have less of an ego problem, and (in this instance) they listen better.....

Care must be taken so as not to "drown" the student in information.....at the start, there is so much to explain, sometimes it is difficult to choose which points to work on...

Another exercise that is very helpful is a "walk-around". On a 2 day event, first thing in the morning of the second day, the students are taken to each corner and walked thru. A walking pace permits the instructor(s) to point out specifics of each corner - not only the line, but pavement crown, track surface, pavement camber, track edges, curbs, etc, etc...

For an instructor, the bottom line is that you are there for the student, he (or she) is not there for you...

It is a lot of work, and sometimes stressful, but I still enjoy doing it........

ckkrause

I have done 6-7 DE days this year and I try to get as much instruction as possible. So, I've experienced 7-8 different instructors so far. By and large the instructors have been well meaning and wanted to help me improve my driving. I think the biggest error instructors make is not saying enough about my driving and the line, etc...and not saying it in plain english. Other than that I really appreciate the men and women who instruct on their time!!!

-CKKrause

RJay

With one exception all my experiences with PCA instructors have been terriffic. The one that wasn't so hot the instructor was A) worried because I made the mistake of telling that I was a modestly successful as an auto crosser, which he took to mean that I had to be a maniac hell bent on our mutual destruction and B) he spent the first twenty minutes lecturing me as to what I should change on my car. I thought it was pretty foolish for an instructor to start his relationship with a student by intimating that the car was crap; not conducive to being focused on driving at high speed.

There is one area where I have to say that virtually every instructor I've ever had fails miserably. Audio quality of their communicators. My cars relatively loud inside and it's rare that I actually understand what they saying the first time. DXXXR BRAKE HEXXXXX. Huh? Personally, if I ever wind up instructing, I think for my own peace of mind and safety, I'll be spending the extra bucks on the best unit I can lay my hands on.

These nits aside, I feel obligated, however, to bow low, hat in hand for my four favorite instructors, now friends, Abe Andersen, Peter Faill, Steve Ross and John Dunkle. I utter their names as I believe that they deserve public praise not only for what they gave me, but what they've also given to so many others. I am deep in their debt, I hope someday to become skilled enough to repay it in kind. I look forward to renewing that friendship next week at NHIS!

SundayDriver

I agree. When I was a student, the only 'bad' instructor I can recall was someone who provided no feedback.

On the other side, the only bad student I have had is one guy who would not listen. It was his second ever track day and first time at Mid Ohio. He was sure that his line was right and would not try the fast line. He was very late on apexes, so he was safe. Just would not listen. After 3-5 laps of corrective suggestions and arguments from him as to why his line was better, I stopped correcting him and let him enjoy the session. It was funny because at the end of the event, he told me I was the best instructor he had because everyone esle kept trying to make him take a 'bad' line. (Now had he been dangerous, I would have treated him very differently.)

In general, the biggest challenges were always intermediate students. They would start the day too fast, over-charging corner entries and suffering at exit. But every one I ever had would listen and slow it down to get some smoothness and real speed.

RXDOC

Limited experience with DE. 5 DE weekends with PCA over 3 years. You always learn something useful from every instructor. I still think the type of car the instructor drives does impact on your learning experience. As you become an "advanced" beginner, you should be matched up more closely to an instructor with similar car dynamics and HP. Maybe someone who pushes or challanges you a little more.
Now I better

chris walrod

Mark, are you sure you know Mid-Ohio well enough to instruct(?) .....wait a minute...you just had an awesome top ten result at the Runoffs.. I am still impressed BTW

On a more serious note, the best instructors I have had were the one's who evolve me into a great line around a track and understand the shortfalls of my 993(exit understeer, and the rather wide ratio splits). My favorite is a great guy and a close friend in the PCA named Greg Haake.

earlyapex

I tip my hat to instructors! I've had many good ones and yet to have a bad instructor. My worst experience occurred when the instructor did not have a communicator so he had to yell and use hand gestures. It was tough, so we slowed things down and had a good time lapping Buttonwillow nonetheless. We picked a couple of things to work on before each session and did a download after each session. This helped ease the in-car communication problems.

That said, I also endeavor to be a good student. It takes time to understand the language of car control and I've found that I have gotten more out of my instructors as my driving skills have advanced. It is thus a two way street and I have found that the group of instructors that frequent the track events in northern CA are well trained in this art.

Chaos

Good instructors "Coach" as much as instruct and stay positive !

mpaton

I don't want to single out earlyapex here at all, but I'll happily encourage students to consider their own communicators.

Go on, surprise your instructor in new and different (and pleasant) ways. I tend to believe that the instructor should come equipped with a communicator, but I also know that I go through 5 student headsets for every one I go through.

Michael Paton

SHRKBIT

My biggest gripe is the inevitable instructors' whimpering, and their white-knuckle death grip on anything they can reach as we approach turn 2. Don't they know that's distracting?!


Seriously, though , my biggest gripe was a coach who just didn't seem capable of giving me feedback. I couldn't get him to say anything constructive, positive or negative.

Curt

Jim Child

Sounds like you have Nady? Try a Chatterbox instead. The Chatterbox is the best communicator I've ever used. Its impossible to instruct properly without a functional communicator.

GUMBALL

...Gregg Lewis 'Good instructors "Coach" as much as instruct and stay positive ! " .....ABSOLUTELY ! ! !

as an instructor, one must emphasise the students good points, while correcting their weak points, all while being positive...

also, a GOOD instructor is always in control, which means that your voice is always the same - calm, clear, authoritive.....
(an automotive version of Chuck Yeager)

Time permitting, after each session, I try to do as much of a "debrief" as possible - it is important to listen to what the student is saying...sometimes it is more important to hear what the student is not saying....

Also, as an instructor, one must TRY to answer all of the student's questions - it is important that they not only understand WHAT to do, but also WHY.....

SHRKBIT:
As I said previously, if there is a communication problem, ask the chief instructor to trade your instructor for another one - a good instructor would have no problem with that...

Larry Herman

As an instructor for almost 20 years, I always appreciate informative feedback from my students. I feel that one of the most important things that an instructor can do is to listen. I ask my students how they would rate their ability, what their driving skills are, what they struggling with, how comfortable are they with the track that we are at and how much "chatter" they like. It sets up the thinking process on the part of the student, establishes that we are here to learn, and helps them to open up to a two-way discourse. The feedback that the student offers can be as important as the advice that the instructor gives. In many ways, it helps to structure the learning goals for the weekend. Good thread!

George A

My first DE experience was fairly poor. I won’t go into the details (as I believe I was mostly responsible for it). The thing that stood out the most to me was that my instructor was ready to go home before the last session on Sunday. His car was not running right and he packed up and was ready to go home. That left me sitting there watching all my friends drive. That really sticks out in my mind. I remember how important every session was to me when I started out. Now I regularly skip sessions if things get a little hectic. Anyway, now I make sure I stick around for every session my students want to drive. Don’t get me wrong, I would love for my green students to opt out of their last session (it’s typically the last session of the day for everyone), but I would never force them to. Can you tell it still bugs me?

BTW, the Chatterbox head units also brake. Unlike the Nady, in which the wire into earpiece brakes, the Chatterbox student headsets break at the connection of the speaker to the earpiece. I have several that rotate freely. I guess I need to superglue them, some still work.

George