Palting

This is a cross post from the Boxster forum, but as a track rat wannabe I wanted to hear the opinions of my heroes, the true track rats.

I'm on the list for an Elise, July 2005 delivery. Expected cost with the touring and sport pack plus increase in MSRP about $46K. Im looking for a street legal track car and fair weather fun car. It will complement my C4S on the short track and autocross. Plus, it will get the wife into track events, since she is too afraid she'll do something horrible to the C4S.

So, here I am, patiently waiting for July 2005, when PCNA e-mails me the ad for the 2006 Boxster available January 2005. I think the car is drop-dead GORGEOUS. Looks like a mini Carrera GT with the new front end. Plus, better performance promised, more HP and torque, available PASM/Sport chrono or whatever that package will be called. It's more money, how much I don't know yet, but I am seriously tempted.

Put yourself in my shoes. What would you do?

poorb0yw

I'd wait on the Elise. I think for a track appliance and occasional fun weekend car the overall package would be hard to beat. That super low weight makes me all tingly inside. Plus if you want to get more into the performance stuff the elise upgrades would be considerably less than most anything porsche.

JackOlsen

I love Porsches, but I'd go for the Elise.

RJay

I won't comment on the Boxster, completely different type of weapon. But frankly, if I were interested in an Elise (and I am) I'd wait. First, the Exige will be a better track car when it arrives. Second, given the history of Lotus and its resale value, I'd wager that thems that waits for a used one a year or so from now will get a low mileage car at a considerable discount. Lotus is my first love, my old man had the second Elan in the US in '62, and I've wanted an Elise since day one, but I'll buy mine used for <25k in '06 from some poser who drives it for a couple of thousand miles and then realizes that is not a car for sane people and trades it in on a Boxster.

frayed

Palting, you know my thoughts from the Elise forum.

I'm on the wait list as well, and am considering dumping my C4S for a GT3 or a 997S, or adding the Elise and keeping the C4S. After I spent one hour each in both the Elise and the 997S, my vote goes to the latter. The new car is a phenomenal drive, and presently I pick the 997S over the C4S + Elise.

The Elise does have other-worldly steering, however, and is far more tractable than the C4S under hard driving. The Elise lacks in build quality though, and is not a complete sports car by modern standards.

Palting

Thanks to everyone for the replies. A couple of surprises about the Elise kinda blindsided me. I think I'm beginning to gain my equilibrium. Good thing I'm not ready for either car until spring next year. Gives me time to weigh everything.

Frayed, looks like we hang out in the same places . The only reason I'd get rid of the C4S would be to replace it with the GT3. The 997 isn't a good enough upgrade for the cost it would entail. I like my C4S better than the 997 C2S, anyway . Even the cost of upgrading to the GT3 needs some serious weighting. I'd much rather get another car to complement the C4S.

Honkity Hank

My 2 cents. The elise is by far the better car for the track and the simplicity of it is very attractive. Put that aside and it is a ungainly looking car, the mark 1 version is much more attractive. And on the other side for the content that you get it is unbelievably expensive. Can't reallycompare it to the Boxster as they are totally different cars.

I am with RJay, I will wait and pick mine up used, when the price is more in line with the car.

Sanjeevan

Palting this is my take on this. IMO the main influencing factor in this decision is that you are buying this car for your wife, and you will occasionaly use it for DE's and autocross. Now, in my opinion C4S is a much better/safer car than the elise for a spouse on the track. If she is worried about doing something horrible to the car buy a DE insurance, and the matter is sttled. Hopefully after a few seasons of DE's she may want to repalce the C4S for a GT3, like I am eventually hoping to do
The 05 boxter is stunning, and is a certainly going to be a delightful car to drive, but IMHO in your situation it's not the right choice, and if you have to buy a new car, i'd go with an elise.

oldtimer

Palting, you got it right first time with choosing the Elise, dont get confused by the Boxster. I've just returned from a driver experience type day where my 911 (euro 964RS) was faced by 16 Elises in a series of tests including slalom between cones and a minicircuit , again made by cones. The fastest I could slalom was 32.4sec compared to 29.5 by the best Elise , my time was only 12th best. On the mini circuit , the best elise did 1min 1.8 sec , I eventually got down to 1min 5 sec which was 5th best. The lightweight and fast steering made the Elise much more nimble, my power advantage and stronger brakes could not make up the difference....I was exhausted wrestling with the non power assisted wheel, they were twirling and having fun ....conclusion get one of each and enjoy the different sporting character PS the Elise engine+gearbox, is pretty well hung over the backwheels, it is more mini 911 than mid-engined

Sam N

Can't add toomuch as far as technical/on-track experience, however, you might want to check out the photo of the 3rd generation Lotus Elise in the Spyed photo section of the most recent issue of Car & Driver. Car is supposedly wider and longer and has a cool new front clip. From the photo it appears to have a fixed (DTM) style wing. Not sure if its worth the wait, but I would take it into account when dropping $40K+ now, only to have a redesigned car in roughly 12 months.

Regards,
Sam

hdemas

This one is a no-brainer. Assuming you fit in the Elise, get it. Duh!!! ...unless you want to wait for the Exige, but that may take a few years at Lotus production rates.

The new Boxster is just a rehashed old Boxster with some improvements that Porsche makes a big deal about but which amount to a bunch of electronics and stuff with minimal change in the way the car drives. In sum, boring. We've heard the same story from Porsche many times over, but the fundamentals of the car are still the same. ...and to top it all off, the car is still ugly.

In comparison, the Elise is what enthusiasts have been waiting for in this country for years. I got to drive a new one with the sports pack recently and it was truly amazing. There are only two new cars that I have any interest in--one is the GT3, and the other is the Elise. Between a GT3 and an Elise it is a tough choice as the Elise makes the GT3 look and feel like an oversized, overweight cruiser, albeit a fast one. Then again, the Elise is just 2 steps away from a shifter-kart and about 4 steps away from a motorcycle, so you have to want something small and engaging and so low that you look over at a Camry driving next to you and just see a doorhandle.

As to Elise values dropping, they aren't making very many of them so I think you'll be waiting awhile for that. If you want to experience depreciation, all you have to do is buy a new Boxster. Boxster's are good cars only in that you can pick them up really cheap from people who commuted in them to and from work.

In sum, if you are actually seriously being tempted by the Boxster over the Elise, then you aren't the kind of person to who should be buying an Elise and you should just get off the waiting list so those of us who really appreciate them can get them.

Palting

Heh-heh-heh . I never thought I'd get THAT one thrown at me. BUT, the Elise is no longer the ultimate track car it was when it was first introduced. Sure, they've now got the Toyota engine and some improvements, but other brands have improved as well. Did you know that the Elise got beaten by the WRX STi by a full 2 seonds per lap at Brands Hatch (Auto Car magazine, July 27/04)? How'd you like to get soundly beaten by a 4 door sedan from Subaru while driving the "ultimate" track car? Not that I'd buy the Sti over the Elise, but if we are talking about track performance, the Elise is second to the Sti!!

Plus, all this current craziness and mob mentality is driving the greed factor in everybody. Premiums over premiums over premiums just to get a slot in the waitng list!! Only to have "unassigned" cars show up at the dealership to be sold at even higher premiums. Thank goodness so far my dealer has been a straight shooter.

Plus, the Boxster S now has increased HP and torque over the old. Electronic gadgetry or not, I think the driver selectable suspension stiffness is a great idea. I dont call the guys that have adjustable mechanical shocks and suspension "wimps" just because they soften the ride for the drive home.

As to getting the car for those that REALLY want it, don't worry. If I decide against the Elise, you can have my slot for FREE.

JonM..

AND YOUR POINT? A slalom is not a true race track, and a 964 (rs or not) is not a boxster, totally bad comparison...sorry.

But back to the Elise vs. Boxster...Like many others here I also hang out on the Elise site, but I'm waiting to buy my elise used, IMHO buying a new one would be a very poor investment. I like the Boxster too, especially the next gen coming out, it may sway me from the Elise, but I'll have to drive it first.

BrandonH

As threads trolling for opinions go, this one is hard to resist! So I'll cave to the temptation to give the dead horse another flogging. While I don't haunt the Elise forum (where is it by the way?) I'm a hard core Lotus fan, watched Senna drive to his first victory for Lotus at Estoril, drove an SII Elan as my daily driver summer and winter (talk about your hair shirts) for five years, agree 100% that the SI Elise was a true extension of the Colin Chapman vision. Why just this weekend I did a u-turn to get out and ogle a turbo esprit that was parked in downtown Princeton. That's one still running at least.
That said:
1) I wouldn't put my wife in a stock one for DEs for safety reasons. Even if the Elise is 10X as reliable as a Lotus from prior decades (and I mean: ALL prior decades) it will let you down in ways a porsche won't, especially if you hit something.
2) Interesting question do they plummet in value? I suspect not: the hype is pretty incredible and this isn't a replay of the '90's Isuzu-Elan. Though I agree with the prediction of a rapid year-two change of hands...
3) The U.S. spec Elise actually got a bunch heavier; how much so, those who are following more closely can better say, but I'm recalling it is now in the low 2K lbs, right? Still light, and the Toyota engine is probably wonderful, but not the ~1400lb wonder the S1 was.
4)My suggestion: Consider the Elise as a dedicated track car, and bring one over from Europe which has been converted as such: full roll cage, simplified and lightened. you could tow it with just about anything. I think I'm correct that if you are not going to register it, importation is doable with some hoop-jumping. Bet the price of a sorted U.K. track car imported under the racecar exemptions with full equipment is less $ by 25% than the price of a new street version.

911wings

brandon, the elise weighs in at 1750. I had an interview with the lotus headquarters in may and go tto do an up close inspection. as far as the engine goes, it is easily superchagered. The elise wins hands down.