Eric in Chicago

Color, no data. I have the Aim system but dont have it hooked up yet

F1, I was pretty busy with a couple of students, sorry we did not get to meet. You have pretty good times with a limited set up. The S2 is a sleeper car, 3.0 engine with about 208 hp I have a full race set up with coil overs, monoballs etc. A well driven S2 will do a 1.35 at Gman so I am a little off the pace.
This years race was a little wet so the times are off from a dry race day. If your going to be at Road America for the DE/Club Races, please look me up. I am driving a red 944 with a yellow # 400 and a red wings logo on the roof. A S2 on a track like G man (slow, technical)is great, I was passing a lot of 911's in the instructor group. I was just able to keep up with a buddy in a 993TT, great weekend eh?

Greg, I am sorry you wont be joining us at RA this year, hope to see you at Putnam in Sept.!

Lewis, I dont know that I would travel that far for Gman, You couild make a trip out of it and hit Putnam, Road America, G man and Blackhawk. All within 2 1/2 hours from Chicago

Greg Fishman

Eric,
I am too, I just have a bunch of little things to do to my car to get it back to "legal". I will be at Putnam this Sept. All 3000+ lbs

ColorChange

Greg: In this case I am forced to agree with you as you can see, I was having a great deal of difficulty with the brakes which was making trail braking extremely difficult and it was giving me very inconsistent braking points and therefore entry speeds because I couldn't modulate for beens. I hopefully have that fixed with Stoptech brakes.

While Greg is good enough to spot the problem (congrats Greg), I have the datat to prove that's the problem. And I also have data to show that in other vehicles I have no problem. Where is the problem shown?

Oh you guys are going to love this ... ON A F%$#ING g-g plot! The lower half of the plot near braking to corner entry is terrible. Good in my other cars, bad here. My new brakes bettter have it fixed. And this isn't Monday morning quarterbacking. This is a quote from my first post after my first test & tune

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/147048-first-day-tt-track-report-long.html

"BRAKES
I was not real impressed with the brakes. They stop OK, but not as well as my Lambo Wilwood setup, but OK. I was smelling a lot of brake fumes and so I pulled in and did a hot lap measurement in the pits (no cooling lap). My front brakes were seriously smoking, no flames but I was concerned. Got a front rotor temp of 910F. Ouch, immediately jumped, in and got back on the track so they wouldn’t continue to cook. Buried the pedal well ahead of the braking zone as I anticipated the fluid boiling and it nearly went to the floor. After that it was OK but I will bleed the brakes tomorrow. As laps continued, I still got a lot of brake smell (like when bedding). Is this normal for Pagid blacks? Do you really need to crank the temps on these these baby’s to fully bed them? It made me a little cautious and I really wasn’t driving hard yet. Will this go away? I hope the brakes will feel better once they are blead (sp?)."

Followed by

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/147607-day-3-track-report.html

"Brakes:
Still a problem with the brakes. When I replaced the fluid with Castrol SRF, I didn’t have a PS2 to cycle the ABS to get everything out, and when I reblead the brakes I didn’t then either so I had a pretty mushy and hard to modulate pedal. I am hoping this goes away when I have the brakes properly blead. I may need to replace the lines. Any experience on pedal feel going with stainless braids? Most people say no on P cars, the braids are only for reliability."


If I can't fix my braking and entries when I get my car out again, I will definitely do as you suggest. And you would be high on my list as prefered instructors.

Greg Fishman

Color,
What tires are you running? I wonder if proper track oreinted tires would help. I can't comment on what is going on with your brakes as I haven't driven your car but I would really be surprised if the brakes (calipers/rotors) themselves were the issue. Maybe the pads, or not enough cooling. But I would hold if on the Stop Techs until you try some other less expensive options. I hate to see you throw good money on an expensive solution when a cheaper more effective one may be overlooked.

I would be glad to help you out one day. Look at your calendar and see if you can make it down to Putnam the first weekend in October. Friend of mine puts on a great DE and you will get some great track time and instruction. He is a pro level driver and having him give you a ride in your car for a couple laps would be a great learning experience. He can really make a car dance. Within two laps in my new race car (with me in it) he was turning times that I didn't see for almost two years and lots of suspension tuning and tweaking.

Anyway here is the info on the DE. http://www.wheel1.com/hikari/driverschool.asp Do you remember the guy that instructed you at a Ferrari event two or three years ago. He was in a silver 993 Carrera 4S? Jerry is his name. He will be there as well. I was at that event in my black 993 and I remember your Lambo. Not often you see one of those on track. Also not very often you get to share the track with a 333SP, but that is another story.

Jack667

F1 - a 944S is an "H" car, not an "I" car. However, it seems that the fastest "I" cars often beat the "H" cars. I think its likely due to level of driver experience and the size of the field. Example - at Road Atlanta and Barber, there were about 22 "I" cars and 3-4 "H" cars. Bottom line - a well drive "S" (H car) should beat the I cars. so - check the results and go with the lower time. That's what you should compare your car to - if it was similarly sorted out...

Jack667

well - I looked up the last 3 years - looks like 1:41's and 1:42's.

PCA Results

Jack667

ps, F1 - sorry to be on this tangent so long - an "S2" is an "F" car, btw. They are usually much faster than the H and I cars, on most tracks. (note the double caveat!)

FormulaOne10

Jack, thanks for the info! That's the kind of stuff I was interested in. I think hoosiers would put me down another couple of seconds and so would some more suspension work. However, I'm likely going to sell the car before I really get into those more serious mods (of course I say this now while I am rationally thinking...). Honestly it's a terrific weekend track car as it stands and I can still have loads of fun at those laptimes. Instead I'll spend the money on an elise or a boxster coupe!

ColorChange

Greg: Pilot sport ribs. I now have GT-2 PS2's and I am considering GT-2 rims with Pilot Sport Cups.

I upgraded the brakes because even with GT-3 cup scoops front and GT-2 scoops rear, Pagid RS-14 blacks, and with stock power, I was having pretty big thermal management issues. Aslo, the brake bias was too far forward. After adding over 200 hp with my Stage 4R kit, I don't think the brakes could have handled it, even with my TA nose addditional brake cooling.

Could be wrong, might have wasted money, but I will know once I get to the track. I intend to install real time IR thermal monitoring on the rotors and calipers.

I will check your Putnam date.

Greg Fishman

Good luck on the brake issue. Is there anyway to use some 3" or so ducting from the front of the car to the eye of the rotor?

Make sure you don't get the solid spoke GT2 wheels. They are way too heavy.
I can get you in touch with the owner of Forgeline www.forgeline.com He could custom make you a set of his race wheel that is lighter than most forged Fikse or Kinesis wheels. His prices are very fair and I bet he would "give" you a free DE weekend as part of the deal.
Just let me know if you want his contact info.

ColorChange

Already have an additional 3" coming from my TA nose.

Shoot me the info on the wheels. How can you tell if the GT-2 wheels are solids or hollow? Does anyone have the weights for each set?

944TURBOS

awesome video, I was at gingerman this past weekend and was running some of my better times around 1:33.5-1:35 throughout the weekend....was a blast....i was in the white 944 turbo #501

joey bagadonuts

Mo, You need to slow the hell down! Nice driving, btw!

Very entertaining, CC. I was also at G'man with Eric and others and we were trying to figure out which car was yours. What gives? Were you a no show?

Anyway, I had a nice weekend and thought I was doing pretty good but then that damn S2 with the Red Wing logo had me coughing in its dust. I had a couple laps in the 39's but mostly 40 on Saturday. Eric, you were definitely doing better than 39's.

As for your laps, CC, I think Greg is right on with the entry speeds comment but you're also turning in too early in a lot of the corners (except T5 ). Those turn in cones in the video are pretty much in the right locations--the T10 cone may be a shade early. But what you'll see is that you start your turn before you reach any of those cones. What's the rush?

You should slow it way down, wait until you get to the cone, then sharpen your turn in, hit that late apex and pour on the gas. In most cases you're still trying to make the corner after the apex. I couldn't hear the throttle come on until you neared your track out points. That's too late.

Also, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do in T2 or T10. It looks like you're running a constant radius line. I like to enter both of these turns in a very tight line--about a car's width off the inside curb. In T2, I hit the end of the first curbing and then floor it. For T10, I stay on that tight line, hit the end of the curbing and then go. To paraphrase a recent RE article, that's how I try to maximize velocity in a useful direction.
Hope that helps and thanks for sharing.

944TURBOS

joey I loved your way around turn 2....I have used it since last year and it worked perfect....probably some of the best advice i have gotten for any corner and from anyone....Turn two seems to be one place i pick up speed on people and i use the same approach...seemed to work for my student as well

joey bagadonuts

You're welcome!

It's also good for passing and defending your position. Something that might come in handy next summer. Also make sure you try the tight line into T10. That's another good place to make a pass.