dgz924s

Has anyone forwarded this topic to the PCA National? Do so! Inundate them with bad postings!

While you are at it see where they are on my 2 month wait for rookie status..........I will have to stand with Geo here. If I want a ***** I will get one here and save on shipping and getting taken! lol

Windward is not the only one for certain......... Dal

P.Po

The value of Panorama and also being a member of the PCA certainly decreases if they do not value the interests of the club member.

It may be a good idea for Pano to include a type of approval insigna with each advertisment. Or parhaps the club can create an approval/complaint system similar to E-Bays feedback. There are many options for the club that allow for revenue generating advertising while warning PCA members that certain people have had bad experiences with a particular vendor.

The PCA is certainly starting to loose my support in a lot of areas. Perhaps your region is different. However, if the PCA actually reacts to the Windward complaints in a timely manner it would score huge points with me. This is a really good platform for executive elections.... anybody willing?

-Patrick Parato

Geo

Indeed. First the BS with PCA Germany Region. Now to read they don't care that Windward is ripping people off.

Oh yeah, and at the club race at Parade today, the leader was called in for some bogus stop and go (for all I could tell). I saw a lot of silly black flags today. I've no interest in racing in PCA.

Tim

I just do a quick thumb through of pano, then it hits the recycle bin..

dgz924s

Sad thing is as always it is a matter of revenue. They have to pay the bills I guess so the issue of bad vendors is a moot point as it is money that is needed not happy and confident club members. Just from reading here and there it appears there are many issues needed solved. Travel distances to CR's, insurance/legal paranoia, techs waving black flags at cars with a blue puff of smoke yet pay no attention to "chipped cars" which is a very easy thing to detect. I will say that it is being looked into more now as they are catching hell from racers. Then my issue at hand, taking 2 months to evaluate info for a license to race all for the good but it should not take this long! Put all this in one basket and it can be very disenchanting to be a PCA member.
The real sad part is the members in PCA are top quality people and the club has the room for being a "top notch" club for this reason alone.

Inconsistency and changing rules when the wind blows is a PITA too.

Actions cause reactions!! Dal

Geo

Heh. It's sad when people start making bad choices and justify it because of the money involved. Hell, they may as well take ads from coke and crack dealers. How about ads from hookers since Pano seems to be whoring itself? In the end, money does not make things right, although our society seems to be heading that direction. What ever happened to honor?

dgz924s

Well said.....! "It's a Dog eat Dog world and we are all wearing Milk Bone underwear!"$$$$$$$

MJR911

Well for the most part the PCA guys and gals are volunteers, so speaking as a person that gives less time then they do, I think they're doing a great job. Is there any real evidence that the correct person at Pano has even heard and seen PROF of the BS with windward?

It won't take much to convice me, I still remember when the owner of Windward showed up at the Glen race and tried to pass tech in his "stock 930" with a giant intercooler.

Geo

Mitch, I hear you loud and clear about volunteers. They are worth their weight in gold. I couldn't value volunteers more and talkers less. But, while I don't volunteer for PCA I do volunteer for the SCCA and the SE-R Club of America (even organized one national convention and am working on another for them).

Also a good point about getting to the right person, but I'd hope that the club volunteers would share stories of such behavior with the right people. Also, proof is not necessary. You see, this is a private club. The people we elect in this club have a fiduciary responsibility to its members and can simply refuse the ads.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but I have a hard time believing this is the least bit secret knowledge about Windward since the only info I've heard about them is that they are thieves and I'm not that well connected in the P-car would. I would hope PCA officers would be better connected than me. Letting members continue to be ripped off by these jokers is not right.

DGaunt

I second,or is it third now, the Volunteer thing, but I'm not sure it applies equally to region vs national staff. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place, but how many compensated ppl. are on the PCA payroll?

Sadly it always happens once things get beyond a grass roots ad hoc base, bureaucracy and fear ruins it.

dgz924s

It simply would not be a club without the volunteers, they are the "club"! I just might end up being one if I don't get approved to race.

PCA is in a hard spot however. Trying to throw a "party" and please all is not an easy thing to do. So as a result we have the issues at hand but that doesn't justify doing business with crooks and turning the other cheek as it appears to have happened.
I will bet the mindset is just like TV programming if you don't like the business don't buy from them. Lack of backbone/integrity comes to thought.

Glen

George, the RUF, driven very well by Steve Beddor missed the chicane in the fun race which was the only time he was called in. I know because I was the black Cupcar right behing him(literally) when he missed it. He has some incredible video of my triple 360 after going through the oil spill from the nuked RSA motor(Jim Cherry) in Nascar 2. That was a ride, Fox Sports took his video and was there for a special on Dan Pastorini"Where are they now". It was a great race, I managed a 1:27.7 and I think the RUF got down to a 1:27.4. It's always fun to see STeve run, car is a monster!

richard glickel

Bill, et al.,

Hi. I don't think you'll receive any satisfaction at all through PCA.

But I DO think that there is something we can do about Windward and other retailers, dealers, shops, that are "sticking it" to Rennlisters, PCA members, etc.

Recently, I needed to make a hotel reservation (for an approaching D.E. date). On one website that offers a reservations service, I came across a forum where past guests at that particular hotel could post their comments concerning their stay. The site was not affiliated with any one hotel or chain.

Why couldn't we establish a forum or site that provides a ratings system for retailers, shops, dealerships, etc., where Rennlisters could rate the quality of service, etc., concerning their personal experience(s) with different retailers? We could use thumbs up or down, stars - or any other ratings symbols that are easily discernable. E.g., there already exists a ratings system for threads on the Rennlist forums. The list should include both the good and bad ratings. Obviously, anyone who is paying attention will stay away from the companies that receive bad ratings/comments.

I personally will never purchase anything from Windward because I remembered reading on this board 2 years ago about someone else's unpleasant experience with Windward.

Perhaps we could discuss with JD how something like this could be set up on the Rennlist. If he would consider adding a "business ratings forum" he might want to limit access to members only. That would be up to JD. IMHO, this would be a valuable resource for P-car owners.

Richard

Geo

Glen, thanks for the explanation. Sounds like you had quite the wild ride. Man oh man. I'd have been sitting in a puddle after that. As it is, I had a slight moment just before the front straight chicane last year (little wiggle at 120 mph) and I swear the seat fabric still has a "scrunch" in the middle.

You guys put on a great show.

Alan C.

I think I'll put a 'NO Windward' sign on the back of my car for the Putnam race.