Manifold

If the cost of fighting is high, the reward for winning the fight is not high, the likelihood of winning the fight is low, and there's an option to not fight, then choosing to not fight is the wise thing to do, and doesn't reflect lack of *****.

NaroEscape

Todd is sitting at home with a cigar and scotch laughing at the direction this thread has gone…

oh wait, I mean a celery stick and a smoothie.

dgrobs

That, or the other guy is a better shot than me at 26 yards…

Manifold

Or you may lack ***** in general

dgrobs

Exactly my first point. Thats the story I’m sticking with regardless.
Todd has *****. I don’t.

Nowanker

Little to do with wisdom, or the lack thereof.
Sometimes the level of outrage is great enough to make the fight mandatory.
Most of us have a personal limit...
The big loser is Club Racing as a whole. Many other venues to focus on, instead of just PCA CR.
From my personal experience with the BMWCCA... if I knew they would be such giant dicks about things, I would have said 'screw them' earlier, and just built my car to NASA rules in the first place.
I didn't know that PCA Club Racing would be so similar. It was just by luck that I built this car for NASA. I'd be pissed if I built it to CR rules and then they pulled that same sh*t on me.

multi21

Hopefully he’s at a track event this weekend and enjoying himself with another club and not reading this.

LuigiVampa

So many great posts here, and I have to agree, I am not that smart because I honestly thought that by making a rationale argument I could convince PCA of my position. It is now abundantly clear to me that PCA leadership doesn't care what it's members think.

As for civility, I find it ironic that this dispute starts with Harry Kintzi being rude and dismissive to my position, but that's OK. Justice for me, but not for thee, appears to be the credo of PCA. I don't have respect for anyone who takes the medical position that OSA can cause someone to fall asleep while driving a racecar. PCA looks RIDICULOUS for never walking back from this position.

Although I have kept up the pressure, for the past month I have also made it very clear to PCA that I acknowledged that they won, they did not change or interpret a single rule in my favor, and that if they gave me my race license back I would end this public dispute. At LRP two weeks ago I communicated this in person to Aaron Ambrosino in person. One month ago, when I sent in my sleep study, and I made this clear to Dave Rodenroth (Club Race chair), Harry Kintzi, Ken Laborde and other members of PCA leadership. They decided that making an example out of me is more important, even though I think they already did that by preventing me from racing this year.

What is missing from all these posts on RL are the numerous times where I reached out to PCA to try to strike a truce. No one from PCA ever called. No one ever tried to meet me even part way. Even when I spoke with Aaron two weeks ago he was so incredibly angry that he would barely speak with me. He just kept telling me it was in the hands of the Club Race committee as if he had no input into the situation.

At every turn PCA tried their hardest to interpret the rules against me and prevent a solution. The letter I received from Dave Rodenroth suspending my race license is absolutely ridiculous. The mental gymnastics they were forced to perform in order to find me guilty of crimes against PCA are worthy of an Olympic gold medal. I don't understand how Dave and his crew can look at the sleep study, signed by my doctor, and state that I didn't provide a letter signed by my doctor! My sleep apnea level is an 8, which is extremely mild, because at 5 a person is not judged to have OSA, whereas 30 is severe OSA. DOT truck driving standards, which PCA has also not backed away from, do not require CPAP usage for drivers with mild OSA. According to DOT rules, which PCA adopted, I don't need treatment, so how does Dave claim I am not in compliance? It's just doublespeak.

I am also being punished for not being truthful for my failure to disclose my prior use of a CPAP. When I started racing with PCA in 2015 it was not part of the medical form, and being the lazy guy I am, every two years I just copied over the info from the prior year because nothing else changed. I could have said that this was a new diagnoses, but I was truthful that it was a oversight, because who in their right mind would think OSA would be a problem?! This is a lesson to everyone - being truthful will get you punished!

As for the charge that I did not act in a civil or respectful manner, let me take out my UNO reverse card and say that we would never have gotten here if PCA had acted in a civil and respectful manner toward me. I didn't need to get my way for this to be resolved and even offered a solution where I would provide the data on the promise that PCA would look into changing to rule. Not the requirement to change the rule, just the promise that they would try. I was told no and the email said it was because Ken Laborde said no. Who is running PCA?

The bottom line is this - I wanted this to be over and offered to bury the hatchet. Dave and the rest of PCA leadership have provided an emotional response, devoid of facts, because I hurt their feelings. Accordingly, let me get petty for a brief moment and say "tough $hit." I never went over a line, and if you are fragile and don't like criticism, you shouldn't take a public leadership position where you might be criticized. You also might not want to create a dispute where your position is that a driver can fall asleep while driving a racecar and the DOT trucking standard is reasonable to use for racecar drivers.

It would have been nice to continue to race with PCA but I guess my ten year run will now end. I did what I thought was right and am completely at peace knowing I can race in many other series where I will be welcomed.

PCA Club Racing comes out of this looking petty, vindictive, arbitrary and out of touch, at a time when driver counts are plummeting. Blame it on the cost of cars, the economy, or any number of other factors, but the truth is that PCA CR has shown the race community its ugly side, and drivers have taken note.

It is a shame, because I still believe in the good nature of PCA, members, but I have zero faith in its leadership. I have no wish to see people resign because we need people to stay active and try change the leadership. Ex-members have no standing and a handful of drivers leaving won't move the needle. PCA has already dismissed everyone here on RL who supports me as a small vocal minority. In short, they don't care what any of you think. Stay and fight for change.

Dave and Aaron - when you have had enough please feel free to reach out to me. Until that day comes, I will continue to highlight PCA leadership's failings, your ridiculous policies, and your subjective interpretation of our rules of governance. If you continue to take the position that disagreeing and challenging PCA's rules makes me uncivil than you'll have to punish me again thereby showing the racing community just how petty PCA can be.

Not only am I undaunted by your punishment, it has breathed new life into this conflict. Congratulations, you chose poorly, because I am the guy who doesn't back away from a fight and this is my new hobby.

needmoregarage

^BRAVO!

peterp

You have your own sleep doctor at your disposal. Why don't you have your sleep doctor send a written note to Harry and the PCA stating that it is always safe for people with OSA to race with others on track without using CPAP?

MSR Racer

I think they are just upset at the persona attacks. This was a very simple medical situation that you should have handled better confidentially. The alternative, litigating in a public forum, as you did, has a predicable outcome. Having said that, I am very empathetic of your situation as an amateur club racer. I dont agree with the style of attack.

stownsen914

I wasn't suggesting that any kind of enforcement would be desirable or even possible. It's something where we have to count on personal responsibility. Not all practice it, unfortunately. That's all I was commenting on.

m3bs

Is “personal responsibility” still a thing? I thought it went out of favor years ago….unfortunately.

The next test will be to see if anyone wearing a “Free Luigi” shirt at a PCA event gets banned.

Sounds like we are going to need more popcorn.

DKP 97 C2 Coupe

I find it difficult to fathom that anyone who reads Todd's rational and well-crafted posting of last evening could still be critical of the way that he chose to pursue this entire distasteful matter. If we consider that RL is a highly-specialized social media platform, Todd chose to express his frustrations at the illogical responses that he was receiving from National publicly. While others may have chosen not to do so, SM does allow for "a peek behind the curtain" which has only been recently possible; years ago this would have been known to just Todd and whomever he would have personally shared it with.

Agree with Todd's choices in this matter or not, but it has certainly shed light on how PCA operates at the highest levels, a light which many of us were privy to based on personal experiences, but now has blossomed into something that untold numbers in our community are aware of.

LuigiVampa

Thank you.

For the TL;DR crowd here is a summation of my longwinded post:

1. My sleep study says I have very mild OSA and according to DOT standards this does not need to be treated. Per PCA's rules I am 100% in compliance.
2. The sleep study contains all the data and conclusions and is signed by a doctor. It is MORE than just a letter from my doctor saying I don't need a CPAP any longer. Rodenroth's statement that he needs something else is ABSURD.
3. I spent over a month communicating with PCA in private and even had an in person meeting, separately, with Aaron Ambrosino and Dave Rodenroth. Both smiled and told me that they would do nothing to overrule the doctors.
4. There is no halo protecting volunteers from criticism and I responded with the same level of respect I was given. These are people representing a public organization of 160,000 members. If you punish a member because you don't like criticism than you are unfit for leadership. Making this public was forced on me.
5. PCA's interpretation, findings and punishment are entirely bereft of logic or facts. PCA was never interested in assessing whether these rules needed to be changed. They resented my inquiry and treated me with disdain.
6. I have no tolerance for little bureaucratic bullies which is why I chose to fight. Others may disagree but I can't even say I respect your position. It is weak to not stand up for something you believe in. What I am doing is an entirely normal response.
7.Keep in mind that Aaron Ambrosino was on the Executive Committee, and Ken Laborde made the motion ten years ago, to kick out a past president, who was in his late 80s,because he was asking questions about finances and they didn't like his tone. Sound familiar? What kind of hubris and lack of empathy does it take to kick out the fifth president of PCA who is in his late 80s? It is an absolutely disgusting abuse of power.
7. Dave Rodenroth's emotional decision to punish me is not in the best interested of PCA or PCA CR. If you can't take criticism than you are not a leader.
8. I'm looking forward to driving for the third time at the Champcar 12 Hours of Thompson this coming weekend. An amazing amount of fun, with hours of racing, which will probably cost me $1,200. PCA is doing me a favor as there are so man other places to race.
9. I will continue to make this issue very public and take this debate beyond RL. Did PCA think I was just going to cry in a corner?