Rub Out? What is your definition for PCA Racing?
04-02-2023, 01:05 AM
#76
Drifting
Vintage racing is generally mint cars old cars that no one gets to close to each other with. I can't recall there being contact in vintage in over a decade with my local club.
Endurance racing is pretty safe too. I've seen enduro class wins decided by a car length (once) but generally no one is winning an endurance race with a single pass or on the same lap so people generally don't fight for position. There are aggressive people like myself in endurance racing taking advantage of people driving to survive, but contacts are almost non existent. I know I'm guilty of bullying people early with scary for endurance racing passes so I train them to jump out of my way on the straights for no time loss to myself rather than making me pass them in the corners for a time loss. Most enduros have zero contact over the entire race that I've seen.
Open wheel sprint racing is fairly safe too but that depends where you run and how close the cars are in lap times. I know some areas have large fields and tight racing. My local open wheel racing really only has single vehicle accidents for open wheel. They're pretty safe too.
Closed wheel sprint racing would be next. 20-45 minute races = you'll see people trying to win the race on the race start in corner 1. If you eliminate the spec classes I'd say there is 1 contact every weekend at least as bad as what bob saw, but it would be very rare to see a lot of incidents like that. Maybe once every 3+ years there is a big wreck that collects and destroys 2-3 cars.
Spec class sprint racing is a disaster. I'd love to do that but I swear spec miata is for people who like to build a new race car every 3-5 years. It seems the rule in spec miata is when you run out of talent just drive like you're playing Gran Turismo.
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04-02-2023, 05:53 PM
#77
Perfect Angel
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I am confused about what is now considered a "Rub Out" in PCA Racing.
IMO, a Rub Out is when you can literally clean/rub the tire marks, dirt, etc. off the car and there is little to no indication that any sort of contact occurred. OK, slight paint and/or wrap damage would fall under that definition too.
But how about 2 damaged wheels, damaged rocker panel, damaged door that doesn't stay closed and a bent (albeit minor) front fender? That's what happened to me Sprint 1 at VIR after a 944 tried an ill advised pass on the OUTSIDE of T11 (the turn just before Oak Tree). Lap 3. Ending my race.
And there's no reason to make that pass since SPC is substantially faster than SP3 on the straight that is 200 feet away, so I would just pass him back.
And something is not right with the suspension. Car did not feel good in Sprint 2. I managed to finish but was slow.
I thought I had seen somewhere, and I know there was a recent discussion about PCA being a little more stringent on incidents because there was a feeling that incidents were on the rise. This doesn't sound stringent.
Am I just not understanding what a Rub Out is?
IMO, a Rub Out is when you can literally clean/rub the tire marks, dirt, etc. off the car and there is little to no indication that any sort of contact occurred. OK, slight paint and/or wrap damage would fall under that definition too.
But how about 2 damaged wheels, damaged rocker panel, damaged door that doesn't stay closed and a bent (albeit minor) front fender? That's what happened to me Sprint 1 at VIR after a 944 tried an ill advised pass on the OUTSIDE of T11 (the turn just before Oak Tree). Lap 3. Ending my race.
And there's no reason to make that pass since SPC is substantially faster than SP3 on the straight that is 200 feet away, so I would just pass him back.
And something is not right with the suspension. Car did not feel good in Sprint 2. I managed to finish but was slow.
I thought I had seen somewhere, and I know there was a recent discussion about PCA being a little more stringent on incidents because there was a feeling that incidents were on the rise. This doesn't sound stringent.
Am I just not understanding what a Rub Out is?
944, who is actually a very nice guy and generally not known to be reckless, is at fault here. People make mistakes. You have to understand that corner and the line coming out of 10. The Cayman is not "drifting" over. The line crosses from track right to track left from 10 to 11. The Cayman is driving the racing line. At the same time the track is fading to the right. What the 44 is seeing is a narrowing wedge as the asphalt goes right and the car in front of him "goes left." Based on where the contact happened on track and on car to car the 44 was behind and had opportunity to not press the pass. He went for a hole that was closing and 100% should have backed out.
Now don't make me bring up PCA's lack of an "overlap" definition . . .
Last edited by Streak; 04-02-2023 at 06:40 PM.
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04-03-2023, 04:04 PM
#78
Avoid NASA. PCA and HSR and SVRA are my favorites (in that order) as any contact is usually sanctioned. It also really depends on the field size as PCA can at times have 60+ cars on track in a single session. HSR is professionally run but has a bias towards their legacy customers over newcomers when things go wrong. In about 150 races, about 125 of those with PCA, I have only been hit twice and neither of them was avoidable from my perspective. I have seen some spectacular single car crashes in HSR, but they certainly happen in other series too.
For comparison, here is a thread with video that someone posted from International GT at Road Atlanta recently. Look at 3:05 and 4:00 and allegedly the contact at 4:00 was considered a "racing incident".
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=13146
For comparison, here is a thread with video that someone posted from International GT at Road Atlanta recently. Look at 3:05 and 4:00 and allegedly the contact at 4:00 was considered a "racing incident".
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=13146
IGT is a good 8 lap smash fest if that's what your into, I'll never drive with them again. At WGI last year we got 4 clean laps in 2 races. Plenty of yellows, a red and it was such a ****ty experience I didn't do the enduro the following Sunday. Packed it up and went home after making it that far with the car being undamaged.
04-03-2023, 09:31 PM
#79
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IGT is a good 8 lap smash fest if that's what your into, I'll never drive with them again. At WGI last year we got 4 clean laps in 2 races. Plenty of yellows, a red and it was such a ****ty experience I didn't do the enduro the following Sunday. Packed it up and went home after making it that far with the car being undamaged.
3:05 in Frank’s Road Atlanta video is just karma coming home to roost on the white car and 4:00 is all on Mike. Not sure how the black car was supposed to see him coming through from behind the first car he passed.
04-04-2023, 03:29 PM
#80
Unusual. Ken runs a pretty good program, or at least it has been.
3:05 in Frank’s Road Atlanta video is just karma coming home to roost on the white car and 4:00 is all on Mike. Not sure how the black car was supposed to see him coming through from behind the first car he passed.
3:05 in Frank’s Road Atlanta video is just karma coming home to roost on the white car and 4:00 is all on Mike. Not sure how the black car was supposed to see him coming through from behind the first car he passed.
YMMV.
I'm not knocking Ken or the series just I chose to manage risk with who I race with and for me, that type of racing is not for me.
04-04-2023, 04:02 PM
#81
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Ken is a great guy, no issues with him. I don't want to be in a race with what I witnessed at WGI, it was so bad (to me and my teamates) we went to the drivers rep and then to Ken. It was decided after the second race (red flagged) to not continue with the weekend and not to race in that series .
YMMV.
I'm not knocking Ken or the series just I chose to manage risk with who I race with and for me, that type of racing is not for me.
YMMV.
I'm not knocking Ken or the series just I chose to manage risk with who I race with and for me, that type of racing is not for me.
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04-04-2023, 04:13 PM
#82
Maybe it was a a one off or just a bad day.
04-04-2023, 05:19 PM
#84
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I have seen a LOT of carnage at The Glen in the PCA Club races there between 2011 and 2018, when I was there every year.
Seen a lot of damage at SVRA and IMSA events at The Glen, too.
Seen a lot of damage at SVRA and IMSA events at The Glen, too.
04-05-2023, 06:44 AM
#85
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I am confused about what is now considered a "Rub Out" in PCA Racing.
IMO, a Rub Out is when you can literally clean/rub the tire marks, dirt, etc. off the car and there is little to no indication that any sort of contact occurred. OK, slight paint and/or wrap damage would fall under that definition too.
Am I just not understanding what a Rub Out is?
IMO, a Rub Out is when you can literally clean/rub the tire marks, dirt, etc. off the car and there is little to no indication that any sort of contact occurred. OK, slight paint and/or wrap damage would fall under that definition too.
Am I just not understanding what a Rub Out is?
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04-05-2023, 10:24 AM
#86
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04-07-2023, 05:46 PM
#88
Early in the 12hr, our right rear Goodyear exploded, then we lost our left rear. Three more after that, but there was no more body work to damage. We tried to make repairs but gave up.
After the finish two teams protested our open wheel RSR, but the officials let the result stand.
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04-09-2023, 04:07 PM
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Deadly but fun. Nothing wrong with that.
Now, about rubbing one out……
04-09-2023, 04:45 PM
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