macnewma

As some of you know from my postings, I recently finished my first DE a few weeks ago and loved it.

I now have two opportunities to purchase a second set of wheels. I could mount racing tires to the second set and then take them with me for events.

Do you guys think it is wise to go to racing compound this early? Both sets of wheels are great deals, so it is tempting.

Thanks,
Max

Noel

No!!! I still use street tires (Yoko AVS) and I've competed in about 50 autocrosses and 15 DE events. You will learn alot more about your car with street tires...Period. You can still be faster than guys with race tires, I know that I am.

BTW, welcome to the DE club. It is the most fun you can legally have.

mdex

Stay on street tires. Moving to dedicated track tires, or even "r"s too soon is detrimental to the learning experience. If you are worried about bashing up a nice set of street rims and want a cheap set for the track that isn't a bad thing, but put street rubber on for the next while.

Z-man

Definately stick with street tires for now.

And give me that second set that you plan on buying for 'safe keeping.'

-Z-man, looking for a SECOND set of track wheels...

jerome951

If the deal is too good to pass up, buy them but put them in the garage for a while.

Brian P

If it helps, there's a current thread on the 993 forum where we were discussing this.

The basic summary is that the FIRST mods you should be thinking of doing are safety mods. Get those in place before you go with R-compound tires as your speeds will be faster. If anything goes wrong, you'll be glad that you are as safe as possible.

Street tires are a GREAT learning tool. As you approach the limit, they'll make a nice squeal. Eventually, you can learn when you are approaching the limit without needing to hear the squeal, but until you can learn that, I'd highly advise staying away from R-compounds. When those make a nice squeal, it usually means that you have spun.

For what it's worth, it took me about 45 DE days before I felt that I was at the limits of what my street tires could do. So, there's a LOT of learning that can be done on street tires.

Oh, and one of the nice thrills of staying with the street tires is when you pass those in R-compounds.

JackOlsen

There are few things more satisfying than being faster than everyone else at a driving event, and then having word get out that you're driving on street tires, while everyone else is on r-compounds or slicks.

Brian P

Ah... one of my favorite memories (and this was on the 46th day of my DE experience - I finally learned how to drive properly)

A BMW M3 was trying to catch me at Watkins Glen at a PDA event. After the run session, he stopped by to chat...

Him (Looking at my car) : Is that a Boxster S?
Me: No, just a plain 2.5L. (I could see that he was a bit confused on why I could stay in front of him)

Him (Looking at my R-compound tires on my tire rack) : Did you just take those off?
Me: Nope, I corded those yesterday, so now I'm on street tires.

Him (Looking in my car to see if there's some other performance mod): Is that a tiptronic?
Me: Yep.

My only wish was that I had a camera going to catch the whole conversation plus the look on his face.

RedlineMan

Hey Max;

What everyone else said, x2!

I know from experience that you are a very smart guy. Given that, I know that you are keenly focussed on learning.

Learning is about limits. First, you find out where your personal limits are. They will be fairly low. They are far lower than the car's limits. When you begin to put a few pieces together, you can and will approach the limits of the tires first. If they are street tires, these limits will not be dramatically higher than your skill level as a driver can manage. The car still has much more potential left. This is a Balanced Learning State.

When you do indeed begin to manage the limits of street tires, you are learning the ABSOLUTE LARGEST lesson of your "driving career:" Car Control. You will never have the chance to learn it as well or as easily again unless you want to start over some day once you are aware of what you missed.

R-tires put the limits so artifically high that you will not be able to experience the feel of car movement at a level that you can manage. This is an Unbalanced Learning State.

Unattainable limits do not teach you anything about car control. If you do reach the limits of these tires, you will have outstripped your ability to manage the situation. BIFF!

Buy those bargain wheels and put them aside. I have a feeling you will be ready to use them before too long!

Brian P

I like the suggestion that somebody else made. Buy the wheels and put street rubber on them. That way, if a tire should go on you (let's say you run over a nail on the way to the track), you have some backups that you can use.

I did that for about a season when I first got new wheels.

macnewma

Thanks for all the advice guys. That was what I had picked up in some searches, but I wanted to hear it from the experts.

I might pick up the wheels anyway, but I will definitely not run R compound. I have a very nice set of straight Fuchs that I would like to keep that way. One of the sets of wheels is a set of 4 16x8 phone dials and the other is a set of Fikse FM10 17x7.5 17x9. Obviously, the PDs are cheaper, but Fikse are awesome. On the other hand, I don't need 17". Plus, on the PDs, having 4 wheels of the same size allows for rotation.

About the safety mods, I think I already have that covered short of a full cage and a HANS. I am picking up a Recaro Pole Position this weekend. If anyone has any safety suggestions, I am all ears.

Thanks,
Max

Skip Wolfe

If the Fikse were a little wider I would say go with them. The 7.5" fronts are a bit skinny, but they are light as hell as durable. It really depends on the price.

I agree with everyone else as far as you want to stay on streets for awhile. You get to a point where you are chewing up streets pretty bad which is a good time to switch to r compounds. If the wheels are a good deal get them and store them or put streets on them.

Rick

Max,
I hate to sound like a broken record but I'd stay on street tires for awhile yet - staying on street tires will have a positive effect on your learning curve and your enjoyment.
I'll give you more details when we hook up on Wednesday for drinks/dinner.
Cheers,
Rick

BTW - don't call me a hypocrite when I show up on Hoosiers; both of my other sets of wheels are at my tire shop (getting a new set of Hoosiers & replacing wheel centers). I don't have anything to put on the car but Hoosiers - good thing it's a short drive.

macnewma

Skip-

I thought the same thing about 7.5 up front. The owner said that is what Wheel Enhancement told him to use, but I think he may have had them on a 911.

Rick-

I won't call you a hypocrite given your greater experience and skill. Plus, your car is club race worthy.

Does anyone have an opinion on a set of 16x8 all around? I have heard the extra inch up front on the 951 is good. It would also allow me to move tires around when they get worn. One issue is that a set of 16x8 is hard to come by so I would probably need to jump on these.

Max

87turbo911

It sounds to me like the Fikses were on a 911 also. Maybe you should buy both sets and give the Fikses to me for free.

Seriously, though, if you were going for looks, I might lean towards the Fikses since, to me, they look MUCH cooler than phone dials.

But, if you want "track wheels" and are in the same DE stage as me (ie: "learning with a long way to go"), I'd lean towards going with the phone dials. They're cheaper, can be rotated, and, and our current level of learning, you may not notice the unsprung weight difference anyway.

Here's a question for me, though. What ARE the "standard" wheel/tire widths on the 944/951 cars? I've heard that the handling on them is supposed to be fairly close to neutral. If the wheel/tire widths aren't the same all around now, would going "all even" upset the balance of the car or, at the least, noticeably affect the handling?

-Adrian