Garmin Catalyst
06-08-2022, 09:51 PM
#16
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So true...
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"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
06-09-2022, 09:00 AM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the input. I plan to set it up and use it. If I am fortunate enough to get an instructor in the right seat for a few sessions, I will make sure they are comfortable with it. @Sonorus, I drove with I think maybe your wife in the yellow group at Palmer last season. She was in an AMG 4 door and said her husband was in a rental miata while his GT4 was in the shop. If so, super nice and a good safe driver on the track.
06-09-2022, 10:54 AM
#18
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Thanks for all the input. I plan to set it up and use it. If I am fortunate enough to get an instructor in the right seat for a few sessions, I will make sure they are comfortable with it. @Sonorus, I drove with I think maybe your wife in the yellow group at Palmer last season. She was in an AMG 4 door and said her husband was in a rental miata while his GT4 was in the shop. If so, super nice and a good safe driver on the track.
Back on topic... I think the key with the Garmin is to simply ask the instructor what they prefer. If they don't want it in there, it is super easy to remove the head unit. Or it can be run with the display off. The post session review is at least 50% of the value and you can get that with or without live timing. In our experience every instructor was fine with it. Some of them were familiar with the Catalyst but most were not. When it it mounted far off to the right side it can become a rewarding tool for them. The instructor provides direction to the student, the student applies the technique, and the Garmin shows real-time if it resulted in improved performance for that sector. I have found every instructor enjoyed having the extra information available and it has never been a distraction for my wife or I. Once the session is over, the instructor can use the unit for debriefing if they want to and we have has several do just that. That is our experience anyway...
Last edited by sonorous; 06-09-2022 at 10:58 AM. Reason: typo
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ProCoach (06-09-2022)
06-09-2022, 01:01 PM
#19
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Instructors with data are an interesting area. I'm working with a number of groups to make data a more prominent part of instructing, so you know my standpoint on it!
I think it's easy for instructors to think that a data or video system in the car is a nanny or tattle tale on them, when it reality, it's another tool for them to use. With a data system, you can not only get a student to feel what different techniques do in the car, but you can show them in the data. You can see there consistency improve through segment times and speed traces, there driven line improve through GPS mapping and video, and you can show them what they ACTUALLY did, not what they THOUGHT they did. That is a very powerful tool in and of itself. The other great part? You get to teach them the tools they can use to further there own driving when there is no longer an instructor in their right seat. Now you have taught a man to fish.
I think it's easy for instructors to think that a data or video system in the car is a nanny or tattle tale on them, when it reality, it's another tool for them to use. With a data system, you can not only get a student to feel what different techniques do in the car, but you can show them in the data. You can see there consistency improve through segment times and speed traces, there driven line improve through GPS mapping and video, and you can show them what they ACTUALLY did, not what they THOUGHT they did. That is a very powerful tool in and of itself. The other great part? You get to teach them the tools they can use to further there own driving when there is no longer an instructor in their right seat. Now you have taught a man to fish.
06-09-2022, 01:18 PM
#20
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Data is super interesting, there are no real downsides to having it in my opinion when leveraged properly. When I drive my friends race car and compare his overlays with mine for example, it's very easy to determine where I can be faster based on the AIM data/video. I also like having a 'predictive best' lap time afterwards to see where the potential is on a properly executed traffic free lap (which is sometimes not possible). Never used a Garmin Catalyst myself but I would be interested to try one, as most guys I have spoken to who have it are a fan.
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Matt Romanowski (06-09-2022)
06-09-2022, 03:18 PM
#21
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Data is super interesting, there are no real downsides to having it in my opinion when leveraged properly. When I drive my friends race car and compare his overlays with mine for example, it's very easy to determine where I can be faster based on the AIM data/video. I also like having a 'predictive best' lap time afterwards to see where the potential is on a properly executed traffic free lap (which is sometimes not possible). Never used a Garmin Catalyst myself but I would be interested to try one, as most guys I have spoken to who have it are a fan.
There are also places where "slower" drivers can be quicker than the "quicker" driver in the same car. So there's that.
Constructing the best predicted lap is a terrific tool for folks who are practicing doing EACH corner or corner complex really well at least ONCE during the session.
Even if there are no clean laps, just about all systems are able to stitch together the best that YOU did, and the benefit of the Catalyst building what they call the "Optimal" lap is that now THAT is the reference against which your other performance is measured.
AiM, VBOX, Traqmate, Apex Pro, MoTeC and other recording loggers can only stitch together the segments that take the shortest period of time to navigate.
These systems do simple addition, without delineating or vetting whether or not it's even possible (generally not), to stitch those segments all together into one theoretical/eclectic/ideal lap.
Where the Garmin steps up is that not only does it vet and determine (by matching up speeds/car position and geometry) which segments CAN be driven together, but it also records a video of what that looks like, called the Optimal lap. This capability alone offers a tremendous value to those who review it and are guided by it, because it answers the most questions about what works and what doesn't.
Both Traqmate and now VBOX offers video construction and comparison (strip chart and measure) overlay so you can SEE where and how you COULD have really put all the pieces together, but the Garmin Optimal is the one that is attainable.
These are great tools. So much more than simple timing devices...
06-13-2022, 02:38 PM
#22
Instructor
Thread Starter
After the first weekend with the Catalyst I have to say I love it. Thanks for the advice with it. If anyone is on the fence I highly recommend it. Easy and intuitive with good coaching.
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ProCoach (06-13-2022)
06-13-2022, 04:51 PM
#23
How do you have your audio setup with your helmet?
06-13-2022, 05:29 PM
#24
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Locker537 (06-14-2022)
06-13-2022, 07:01 PM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
Funny you asked about that. It would not pair with my apple air pods, my beats ear buds, or my car radio. It would pair with my phone but did not recognize any other device. I went to the gas station and bought a wired pair for $10 which worked but the cord was always in the way of the shifter.
06-13-2022, 08:24 PM
#26
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Funny you asked about that. It would not pair with my apple air pods, my beats ear buds, or my car radio. It would pair with my phone but did not recognize any other device. I went to the gas station and bought a wired pair for $10 which worked but the cord was always in the way of the shifter.
06-14-2022, 07:39 AM
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
I will try my kids air pods and see if it is my pods or my catalyst. Or my old *** is not good with technology so I can have my kids try. Thanks for the feedback.
06-14-2022, 11:28 AM
#28
Funny you asked about that. It would not pair with my apple air pods, my beats ear buds, or my car radio. It would pair with my phone but did not recognize any other device. I went to the gas station and bought a wired pair for $10 which worked but the cord was always in the way of the shifter.
My helmet has integrated comms, so I need to decide if I want to have a wire running from the garmin or get one of those bluetooth chaser devices. I generally prefer low tech / wired as it's less stuff to fiddle with or forget to charge.
06-14-2022, 12:27 PM
#29
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I don't recall getting into a debate with a student pointing to their data about why something I was asking them to do was wrong. I have experienced, MANY times, that something I ask the student do is confirmed by them via a visceral feeling of being "right". I also don't mind a student having data running in the car, but I'm also very mindful of whether they are paying more attention to that vs what I'm asking them to do. On that note and after a lot of observations of "events", I would say that the much bigger issue is whether any particular driver allows their lap timer to take control of their steering wheel. In classroom sessions, I'll often ask who has a lap timer... and I caution them about allowing it to push them into bad judgment by chasing that time. This hobby attracts many type A people... and people need to coach themselves about keeping that under check. Are type A people good about coaching themselves back from the edge? I have observed several instances, unfortunately, where chasing a lap time among friends leads to offs / wrecks - even among very experienced, competent drivers. That timer can help build confidence in students; however, like anything else on track, judgement is very important - and good judgement usually requires experience...and an instructor.
I'll add that one issue I've seen the with Catalyst, from a right seat standpoint, is mounting toward the right side of the car, because of size. I've seen it hanging from the right side of the windshield down in front of the dash installed airbag. If it's like that, I make that go away and into the glove box. I don't want a Garmin logo on my forehead with an airbag deployment.
I'll add that one issue I've seen the with Catalyst, from a right seat standpoint, is mounting toward the right side of the car, because of size. I've seen it hanging from the right side of the windshield down in front of the dash installed airbag. If it's like that, I make that go away and into the glove box. I don't want a Garmin logo on my forehead with an airbag deployment.
Thanks for any guidance. I have been looking through some other threads on the Garmin but haven't seen info on this aspect.
Steve
06-14-2022, 12:33 PM
#30
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That all seems like very sound advice. I am right on the edge of buying the Catalyst so I appreciate your insight, along with the others. Your last comment about the passenger dash airbag was worth noting too. That is right where my airbag is (997). I have tried using my iphone (with TrackAddict) suction cupped to the lower mid windshield, and I found it distracting (maybe I'm still not looking up/out enough?). So I had hoped to mount a new Garmin over in front of the passenger/instructor but after your comment I think I won't do that. Question - how will the Catalyst work if it is in the glove box? I also do not want the lap times displayed while driving (rules or not) - I only want the post session data and tips. Maybe I just don't know the device but won't the glovebox shield the GPS, etc?
Thanks for any guidance. I have been looking through some other threads on the Garmin but haven't seen info on this aspect.
Steve
Thanks for any guidance. I have been looking through some other threads on the Garmin but haven't seen info on this aspect.
Steve