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I noticed that Open Track insurance charges more for some tracks than others . I am interested in hearing from seasoned drivers what their opinion of the safest and least safe tracks , and what makes them that way ?
I have heard the Summit Point is considered "not the safests"
I've only ever been on Main and Shenandoah and Jefferson ( never been to another track.) . Shenandoah has some tricky spots and close to walls , not sure why Main would be considered bad ( compared to other tracks )
not sure why Main would be considered bad ( compared to other tracks )
Eh...I've seen a car t-bone a tree between 1 and 2, another launch into the trees after going off into 9, cars on their roofs after overshooting 5, and the Chute can hurt if you have an issue going through there. Oh, and then there was the old 911 that hit oil before turning-in to 10 and backed into the fence inside of the pit-in lane - spraying shards of wood across all the spectator cars that were parked there. Nevermind the deer, though that's been remedied recently. That being said, I love Summit and its old-school charm
You're probably hitting something if you have an off at Lime Rock or the Glen, but I wouldn't classify either of those tracks as 'unsafe' - quite the opposite, actually, as I'd rather hit something that was designed to take an impact than go careening off through the grass. Both circuits at NJMP are pretty safe, in my opinion. I'm curious to see what others have to say on this topic
In my opinion, the safest ones are the ones with plenty of runoff area. Carolina Motorsports Park and Putnam Park in Indiana come to mind.
Least safe in my opinion are those with little to no runoff or high speed tracks, i.e. Watkins Glen and Mosport respectively. Mosport track manager started the drivers' meeting off with, "There are no small incidents here".
My comments are tilted toward car damage and not so much the risk for personal injury.
Runoff space helps. Ability to hit trees and other unforgiving object = bad. Runoff is great when designed well, i.e. chance to actually stop or at least scrub off speed before hitting things. Not necessarily so great if the runoff ends a jersey barrier, a mound of dirt, or a row of trees. In that case I might prefer just hitting an armco right next to the track surface.
Watch a video of the NY Safety Track, makes me wonder how they came up with the name.
Lrp is about as scary as it is fun, watkins is a close second. I would deff have track insurance at those 2 spots. Njmp tracks have lots of run out but i have seen a few hit the wall last year. I dont slways buy insurance for those tracks. Vir is another track with lots of space but u can still total a car.
i will probably buy a season insurance pass next year as i bought a season track pass with Mo-e for njmp and pocano.
Lime Rock is my home track and I have thousands of laps. Because of my confidence I think it is a very safe track. Same for Watkins Glen.
Every time you go on track there is the possibility of a problem, not just because of the specific layout of a track, but also because of other drivers. For example, you can get collected by another driver at a track with lots of run off.
Accordingly, I don't think there is such a thing as a "safe track" or "unsafe track". There is merely the confidence in the driver at a particular track, and the risks they are willing to take relative to the track's layout.
MSR Cresson 1.3, 1.7, or combined 3.1 has massive runoff areas and only one sketchy area on the 1.3 (CCW direction) coming over the blind hill that leads into the entrance to Toilet Bowl (see black markup in image). Get set up wrong coming up that hill and you can go off in a nasty ditch. As long as you are set up right going in, that's the only place that has a high price for going off. Not bad for a 3.1-mile circuit. the 1.7 config by itself has no sketchy areas.
Nola Motorsports Park in New Oleans is a fast and very safe track. Newer, and designed with plenty run off and bail out areas. Most of the infield is grass and mucky to stop the car. Except for the last corner - 16, which has bitten many, is nicely designed where you do not have to decide between pushing it and being safe.
You will only know the $ difference if you insure per event. We have 2 local tracks carved out of mountains. One has a higher rate than the other. I was asked why I have never driven on the track with the higher rate. Ever gone into the grass? He answered no. Well I have. Not the past year but nice to know that doing a John Deere type tour may only get your car a bit dirty. Maybe not at all.
Looks like most of the input is for east coast tracks. Grass is too slippery to be used for runoff areas like many east coast tracks seems to have, and a mess for many days after it rains.
Out west a lot of the tracks have poorly maintained runoff areas, usually dirt with rocks but a few decent options. Best would be paved area extending from the track surface, then gravel or high traction surface, with safety barriers instead of hard walls.
- Laguna Seca I would consider safe. Large gravel runoff areas to slow the car down and walls are quite far from the track surface. High quality track that doesn't destroy cars.
- Thermal Club also quite safe, with very high quality track surface and curbs, and gravel/sand that does a great job to slow down cars but frequently need a tow to get out of (not to mention the amazing facilities overall.) Walls are a little close for comfort in some areas, with some blind corners where one could quickly arrive at the scene of an incident.
-Streets of Willow is a great track to drive for fun, as there are plenty of corners and generally slower speeds. Poor track maintenance results in ruts and potholes where people frequently cut corners, and will be happy to bend your wheel.
- Big Willow is an ok track layout, but the high speeds combined with rough dirt and rocks all the way around contribute to many bad accidents there. I stay away.
- Buttonwillow is a good track overall. Still the typical rough and rutted dirt if you go off, but walls are far away in most areas and speeds are not too high.
A huge factor is how the event is organized and the quality of track workers to keep everyone safe.
A huge factor is how the event is organized and the quality of track workers to keep everyone safe.
^^This^^
We’re talking HPDE’s here, people.
That said, there have been fatalities at some of the tracks referenced. In DE’s. Also, in club-level competition.
I don’t have anything but anecdotal data, but having attended twelve to thirty DE’s a year for the last couple decades, the incident rate at most tracks appears up, substantially in the last two years. Does not seem to be track specific.
People trying to go too quick, too soon. Driving the car by the scruff of the neck and surprised when it bites them. The number of incidents truly due to mechanical failure/surface conditions is a fraction of those I have seen reports for.
Do I weigh and consider my acceptable risk/benefit ratio at specific tracks more than others? Yes. Do I think incidents are inevitable? No.
I think some of the observations about the West Coast tracks are true, but I’ve seen some big ones at Laguna Seca and Big Willow, too.
I love Summit Point Main. I love Watkins Glen. I really love Lime Rock. I work at VIR. Go easy and incrementally bump it up. And don’t stare at what you DON’T want to hit!
Start slowly and add speed gently, because it’s VERY hard to take it off…
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
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I noticed that Open Track insurance charges more for some tracks than others . I am interested in hearing from seasoned drivers what their opinion of the safest and least safe tracks , and what makes them that way ?
I have heard the Summit Point is considered "not the safests"
I've only ever been on Main and Shenandoah and Jefferson ( never been to another track.) . Shenandoah has some tricky spots and close to walls , not sure why Main would be considered bad ( compared to other tracks )
I feel like VIR is pretty safe track with a lot of space where you need it. However for some reason starting in 2022, Open Track will not offer insurance there.
That said, there have been fatalities at some of the tracks referenced. In DE’s. Also, in club-level competition.
I don’t have anything but anecdotal data, but having attended twelve to thirty DE’s a year for the last couple decades, the incident rate at most tracks appears up, substantially in the last two years. Does not seem to be track specific.
People trying to go too quick, too soon. Driving the car by the scruff of the neck and surprised when it bites them. The number of incidents truly due to mechanical failure/surface conditions is a fraction of those I have seen reports for.
Do I weigh and consider my acceptable risk/benefit ratio at specific tracks more than others? Yes. Do I think incidents are inevitable? No.
I think some of the observations about the West Coast tracks are true, but I’ve seen some big ones at Laguna Seca and Big Willow, too.
I love Summit Point Main. I love Watkins Glen. I really love Lime Rock. I work at VIR. Go easy and incrementally bump it up. And don’t stare at what you DON’T want to hit!
Start slowly and add speed gently, because it’s VERY hard to take it off…
I totally agree and with my home track being Sebring your last sentence rings so very true! Mistakes can be made in fast places without incident but you have to be smart about them.
Off in 1 or 13? Drive it straight and get out of the throttle smoothly, you’ll be fine. Pitch the wheel and you’ll be in the wall…
12-03-2021, 04:26 PM
"safest" and "least safe" tracks for HPDE
