ProCoach

Here's Alex Filsinger in a BMW 325i with 200 TW tires. 63 MPH right up against the bridge. This is normal for what I see for R-Comp or slick shod DE cars, 63-66 mph. Goal should be 68-70 mph.

Mark Dreyer

I was able to maintain 70 under T17 bridge in Boxzilla. (986S), but not sure I’m confident enough to do that yet in a Cup. Mike, you did give me a good tip that I need to expand my arc of entry a bit wider so in new car I’ll work on that a bit more.

ProCoach

@Mike Roblin is on the money, as usual. Pinching the entry lengthens the "maintenance" of even a good vMin, like 70 mph. The key is to shorten the period of the vMin (plus or minus 2 mph) to the absolute minimum you can.

That usually means reaching vMin ONLY JUST before the bridge and having the speed coming up while still under the bridge, for those self-coaching their video-laden data.

Mike Roblin

I’ve got to go back and find a good T17 lap to see what I was really doing more frequently. This particular lap was definitely not my best!

I spent a good amount of time working on turns 1 & 17 during this event and on this lap you can see that I’m losing about half a second in 17 alone to my best from the weekend. Again, the tires were really going away so that was a factor but the nut behind the wheel was also a bit loose, lol!

I appreciate all the comments, keep them coming!

Mike Roblin

An old comment Peter but certainly the mindset I took into the event!

What I really need to do is force myself to do data review between sessions. It really helps me trust myself and the car more for the next session. I think from here forward I’m going to make that my New Year’s resolution!

lgusto

Mike, as you know I'm a data freak and a Catalyst fan. I still mourn Garmin's removal of our ability to extract data from the Catalyst although I continue to use it. But for reliable data I've added AiM products. Many people say AiM is too hard to use, particularly between sessions, but if you're handy with a computer (as I know you are) a lot of analysis can be done in the time between most sessions.

The Catalyst is great is so many ways but the data we can glean from the system is, to me, sometimes suspect. Case in point, your Delta never changes by even 1/100ths from the entry of T3 to the exit of T13. I've found that is not unusual in the straights but always see some change in T10 and especially T13 if the apex is missed. Either you are superhuman in terms of consistency, which is possible, or great care should be used when trying to draw conclusions on a corner's performance based on the Catalyst's Delta. Just my opinion of course. People like Coach with thousands of lap analyses may see it differently.

fatbillybob

Great lap! I was just racing at Sebring a couple weeks ago with SCCA for my 3rd time. Sebring is an occasional treat for me living in SoCal. For a flat track I just don't know why but I really love this track.

ProCoach

I don't know. I see the same issue on PredT in your referenced system. Not particularly useful.

The data you can glean from the Garmin system yields two things, without pain, training or much time needed to get an intelligently distilled "what to do next" answer.

A) Real-time audio feedback, such that if you pick Sunset Bend (T17) to work on, formulate what you're going to do differently and then execute well, it says, right then and right there "best yet," reinforcing that so you can associate the sensory input with the best performance. Likewise, if you braked later for a better braking efficiency going in earlier in the session, it will tell you next lap "brake later 50 feet," or whatever the number was that yielded the best result previously. I doubt 20 per cent of users utilize this feature.

B) Post Session, prioritized areas of the track where you have the most to gain (variance from average to optimal, or your best, performance). Not only does it tell you where on the track you SHOULD work on to harvest the most gain, but under the four tabs, it'll tell you how you did it! So you can do it again. It's normal for people to improve their Opportunity #1, so then it recalculates for you your NEXT Opportunity #1. Or, at an event with a lot of track time, you can work on all three.

The information you used @lgusto to export and arrange was a fast, easy way to determine consistency of vMins at each corner, allowing the driver to focus on the area of most inconsistency. The Garmin does that as it calculates the end result. The AiM allows for a spreadsheet export similar to what you used to do, am I right?

What a simple notation of the vMins DON'T tell you is a) how LONG drivers hover around that speed (+or- 2mph) and b) WHERE the vMin begins in relation to where it ends, the PRIME indicator of overslowing. It's why Mark can be proud of his performance in the Super Boxster, but still not know the whole story. All good.

I think Sunset Bend presents a unique challenge for most drivers. Difficult sight lines on entry to make the proper trajectory away from the left edge of the road to the secondary turn-in point before the bridge, extending acceleration phase past the initial turn-in, and making sure that vMin is JUST before the bridge and lasts only for a MOMENT, before accelerating strongly starting under the bridge. Fun stuff.

I guess it's a little simpler looking at a dozen video clips a few days ago to validate vMins and where they happened because I do that for hundreds of corners over and over again. I seem to be able to divine trends and KPI's by just an information laden video clip!

Sebring is amazing. Even Sean Edwards would go on and on about how much he enjoyed getting better at this turn when he was driving for Henrique Cisneros. What a great place to get better!

Matt Romanowski

Predictive timing in a dash is a pretty complex thing. I've dug *WAY* into it with the folks at AiM and a few engineers for different race teams. AiM does it very well, as I'm sure other systems do. Sometimes it does not seem intuitive. For instance, the change of late braking into the Bus Stop at Watkins Glen can be gigantic, like over a .5 second in that one spot.

As to looking at consistency and time at vMin, AiM has made that possible right after download without opening the file. More important, is that the tool used (read data system) gives the data the user wants and needs in the best way for them.

Veloce Raptor

Mike, regardless of which system you use, with the proper focus, it is easy to take a quick after each session to look for low hanging fruit and/or gauge how you performed in a specific area where you had an objective. The key is picking few (and the right) parameters. I can show you how to do this

ProCoach

Well, you know how to do this and what you're looking for more than most!

Mark Dreyer

I’d love to work together with you at a few events comparing data, maybe sharing a coach like Peter or Dave! From then we get in touch with Roger Penske and see if we can help him bring another podium. :-))

lgusto

The data AiM makes readily available includes predictive time in thousandths of a second at 20 Hertz and thus far I've found it to be very reliable. And I've never seen it remain steady more more than a second even in a straight.

Agreed, average seconds at vMin really helped me to choose my areas of focus and then see if a particular approach helped or hurt. Before Garmin killed their data output I was able to produce graphs like the one below in excruciating detail. I'm doing this now with AiM data.




As I've said, I still use the Catalyst for a lot of things. It's a great addition to the toolbox. But detailed analysis, at the level I want, is not possible. That's really my point about trying to use Catalyst's Delta to gauge improvement in a specific turn.

ProCoach

I think that’s a GREAT graph, right there!

THIS is where people can improve the most, IME. They get so fixated on the vMin that they don’t realize that they’re at or around it for WAY too long.

Drivers usually feel the urgency around the same time to go to WOT, and can if they don’t take too shallow an entry trajectory. Think unwind instead of stay wound or having to wind in more steering.

Then, the obvious area to improve upon is the entry, moving the vMin closer and closer to the point where you can go back to power, instead of the dreaded, extended periods of “maintenance” throttle through long corners like T1 and T17.

Good analysis that anyone can do just reviewing video with speed on it. Count off at 2 mph above vMin from entry to progression to WOT begins. I see some with SIX seconds at or near vMin at T17, and still turning sub 2:12 laps.

There is always the possibility of error in the way the software calculates split times. I noticed in a bug fix list this morning in RS3 this line:

• Bug fix in split report export to CSV and Excel(TM) format.
  
  Bottom line, as with any statistic, trust but verify.
  

lgusto

Agreed. I use some of the RaceStudio3 reports but mainly I pull data directly from the AiM files and produce my own reports for me....and friends. And QA them constantly. No enemy is worse than bad advice.